When we last spoke with Jonathon Stewart, known affectionately to us as Stew, he was in LA hitting his stride in the world of screenwriting and working on animated and live-action feature films. He has continued on this path with his long-time creative partner, depsite the ups and downs that have come in this period of redefinition for the entire film industry. Find out how now, with the perspective one gets in the middle stages of life, sometimes looking at the long game really just tracks with searching for the little things that make us human on this Roads Taken Revisited.
When we last spoke with Jonathon Stewart, known affectionately to us as Stew, he was in LA hitting his stride in the world of screenwriting and working on animated and live-action feature films. He has continued on this path with his long-time creative partner, depsite the ups and downs that have come in this period of redefinition for the entire film industry.
In this Roads Taken Revisited, find out from Stew how now, with the perspective one gets in the middle stages of life, sometimes looking at the long game really just tracks with searching for the little things that make us human…on Roads Taken Revisited with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode’s Guest
Jonathon “Stew” Stewart is a screenwriter, producer, and consultant for business, education and content creators. With his long-time creative partner Eyal Podell, he has written for the likes of Pixar, Warner Brothers, Dreamworks, Paramount, Sony, and Netflix. He has two kids who will invariably feature in his future storytelling.
For Stew’s first appearance on Roads Taken, listen to Character Study.
Jonathon Stewart: I think of AI as being very capable at very small, definable tasks. I think when you start getting into more complex tasks, that's where it doesn't do quite as well. And certainly when you're in the field of conveying some piece of the human experience to others to enjoy, that has to be driven by human experience.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: When we last spoke with Jonathan Stewart, known affectionately to us as Stew, he was in LA, hitting his stride in the world of screenwriting and working on animated and live action feature films. He's continued on this path with his longtime creative partner, despite the ups and downs that have come in this period of redefinition for the entire film industry. Find out how now, with the perspective one gets in the middle stages of life, sometimes looking at the long game really just tracks with searching for the little things that make us human…on today's Roads Taken Revisited, with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
Today I'm here with my friend Jonathan “Stew” Stewart and this is a Roads Taken Revisited because I will say, Stew, your episode the first time round, has always been one that when people ask me, Hey, what should I listen to? I start with this one because it is one of my faves just because it's far reaching and poignant and fun and funny and you give me a compliment in there somewhere, I don't know. But I'm so happy to have the opportunity to revisit with you. So thanks for being here.
JS: Excellent. I'm happy to butter you up again today in one way or another.
LJR: Perfect. That’s what I pay you for. All right. So the first time around, we got rid of all of those questions about who you were or thought you would be at 18, 20, 22, whatever. And now we're no longer those ages. So you were living the life the last time we talked out in LA, finding so much fodder for your creative spirit and avenues to let that out. So talk to us about what's been going on for the last few years and where that is going.
JS: Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think the biggest thing that happened since we talked in many ways is I turned 50 much like everybody in our class, I think, right? At some point this year or last year. So, you know, I think like everybody, it kind of hits you a little bit differently. And for me, it's really just been, I don't know, kind of a period of reflection and thinking about, you know, what the back half is going to look like or however many we get. And you know, I'm still staying busy with everything that we talked about last time. I'm still writing with my writing partner, Eyal Podell. We're still staying busy in animation and live action, mostly features, and, you know, working our way through this really, really tricky time in the industry where, you know, after the pandemic and a couple of strikes and, you know, nearly averted strike you know, it has been a period of redefinition in the film and entertainment industry and sort of the way entertainment is created and delivered. And just the economics of all of that has really been uncertain for a while. So I think that's been a part of the, the sort of, you know, self-reflection of it all as well.
But I, you know, I do increasingly find myself more kind of taking some mentorship roles, which I've always tried to do a little bit of no matter what I've met with a number of, you know, recent Dartmouth alums throughout the years that has been both educational and also, you know, just rewarding in its own right. And so starting to think about what that looks like as we move forward as well.
LJR: Yeah. And the funny thing is when we talked about your path, all those many moons ago, we were really talking about the lack of mentorship for you. That you really had to kind of pave your way. There wasn't the robust network of either a college network or even professionals that were kind of willing to not treat one another as competition. Like, what can I learn from you? That has luckily changed for the better, for the good? Or is it out of desperation? Or are you bucking the system?
JS: Yeah, I mean I think it's a little bit of all of that I think you know the obviously the networking aspects have gotten way better since 1996 when we graduated and the Dartmouth alumni network has gotten more robust and they're doing a lot of things specifically. But in the industry at large, you know, there is still especially in screenwriting. There is a real soup of stuff out there. There's a lot of predatory stuff for young writers in terms of, you know, paying to, paying money to submit to contests or, you know, coverage services or things where there's sort of this promise of success by way of paying for something without actually imparting any education about either the craft or the business of screenwriting itself. And that gets compounded, I think, online, you know, in many platforms, you know, Twitter, especially where I spend a little bit of time, where there's a real clear lack of understanding about what the job of being a screenwriter really entails. And it's really, it's kind of, it's a little sad and it's, I feel the pain of some of these young writers are just hitting walls after walls. So anything I can really do to kind of shed some light on the process. shed some light on the fact that there's not exactly a process for becoming a screenwriter, that it really is kind of about forging your own path, and you know, working on your craft and networking and some of these like old school basic things that still apply, but somehow by virtue of the you know, technological world that we live in, people feel like there's some sort of shortcut or a ladder that you can step on or some sort of easy way into it, and there's just not. It's a really hard business, And right now, even harder, like I, you know, kind of alluded to earlier. So I guess there's a certain compulsion on my part to try to really get some good information out there. And, you know, I, like I said, I've always tried to do that sort of one at a time. And I've been kind of dabbling and seeing what that looks like on a slightly greater scale on social media, at least anyway.
LJR: Yeah. And that's where I've actually seen a couple bits of wisdom from you that boil down to the sage advice of do the work, do good work, keep doing the work. [JS: Yeah.] And have gratitude. [JS: Yeah. Yeah.] So is that…Did I get it right? Is that what you would say is your philosophy at the moment?
JS: That's it. Yeah, that's all you gotta do.No, I mean, I think..
LJR: Not all you have to do, but like Yeah…
JS: I mean, yes, those are, yeah, I mean, those are the fundamentals. Like, it's just like anything in life. Like, you really, you have to do the work. You have to continually improve what you're doing. You have to find and create opportunities yourself. And that's it. It's hard. It's really hard work. And I think a lot of people just don't appreciate that or don't want to lean into that. Or, I mean, it's also, I think the other thing that can be really hard too is you can put in a lot of work and a lot of effort. And if you're not putting it in the right area or the right direction, then you're not getting accurate feedback about what you're doing. And that's where it can be very frustrating. I feel like I've been there in my life where it's like, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. I don't know if I'm just spinning my wheels on something. I don't know if this is actually the work you're supposed to be doing that will, if I do it long enough, actually crack into something new. And a lot of those remain intangible. But I think it's often about trying to point people in the right direction. So at least that effort gets applied to the right things too, if that makes sense.
LJR: So the last time we talked, the direct, some of the directions that you'd been going with some of the bigger projects that you've bitten off, you joked it wasn't really the time for a biopic on a seventy-year-old protagonist who's talking about architecture with Frank Lloyd Wright and then Dr. Seuss. I will say there were some, we've had some successes with some biopics of old guys like Oppenheimer and Bernstein and you know…But what, what are those directions that are calling you right now where you see both opportunity and the ability to have that feed your soul. Because those aren’t always coming at the same time.
JS: Yeah, no, and that continually is, it continues to be a challenge, I think, for so many people I know, and certainly for me as well. And, yeah, it's, it drives me crazy when you can talk to any studio executive in town and they're like, Oh yeah, prestige biopics—We just, we're not interested in those. They don't do very well and dah, dah, dah. And we're like, well what about Oppenheimer? What about, you know what I mean? Like these are mega blockbuster movies. You know, and granted the situation changes when Christopher Nolan is the guy behind that, you know what I mean? So sort of none of the rules really apply when you have, you know, a super A lister attached to it. You can kind of do anything you want at that point. But, you know, for the rest of us, it really is about like, Oh, we're in a world where everything is very IP driven. Everything is very sequel driven. So I think part of this drive that I have, too, is to say, let's do this. Let's also still cultivate original material. Let's find stories from places that are unique and diverse and from voices that are unique and diverse and are not the same old thing over and over and over. And I feel like Hollywood has made some strides in the right direction in that respect, but certainly not on a big scale yet. And you know, I do feel like everything in Hollywood, like so many places is cyclical. It does go through changes. It does redefine itself in terms of what people are going to the movies to see, and the best we can do is just continue to cultivate work that we feel is something that's meaningful to us, and that something is a lens on the world that we'd like to share with the rest of the world. And so, it’s certainly something I try to do in my own work, and certainly something I try to espouse when working with younger writers as well.
LJR: Yeah, and I mean you talked earlier about like that period of redefinition being not only how things are delivered and there are so many platforms in so many places, but how it's created and you didn't say the words artificial intelligence, but I think maybe you meant some of that. I don’t know. Yeah.
JS: AI is…I mean AI is gonna change a lot of things. I think it's already changing a lot of things. I personally believe that you know, five years from now, the world will look very different than it does now in again, in many industries. So obviously, not obviously, but I have definitely taken that into consideration in my own work and in Hollywood. And I do not take the approach that, Oh my God, we're all going to be replaced by AI and AI is going to be running all the screenplays in five years. I do think of it more as a tool that, you know, when put to good use can help with efficiency. It can help with, you know, brainstorming. It can help with organization and it can help with very…I like to think of AI as being very capable at very small, definable tasks that are well contexted. And I think when you start getting into more complex tasks, that's where it doesn't do quite as well. And certainly when you're in the field of conveying at some level, regardless of what the work is, conveying some piece of the human experience to others to enjoy that human experience, that has to be driven by human experience. Otherwise, it will start to feel hollow and, you know, all spectacle and will just be a different thing. It will not be what we go to the movies for when we're looking for an emotional experience or, you know, when we read a book in order to experience what someone else's view of the world might be. Like these are, these are things that I don't think will change. If at all, I think they'll become sort of maybe more important as technology sort of takes over a lot of the other things in our lives too, so…
LJR: Yeah, cause it's such this weird conundrum of like, there's the capability of being, and I'm putting this in those silly air quotes, but it's “creative” through those means, but really it's, it has this derivative sense, you know, definitionally because it's using everything that's come before and it's just kind of using the algorithm, what would spit out, but there's this coherence and this special sauce. So that's where I do love the thought of small efficiency versus like part and parcel, like this whole thing. You can't do the craft. At least not now.
LJR: No, and I agree, and I think that derivative nature is really interesting, because I think as artists, we are also drawing from sources that we have absorbed one way or another over the course of our lifetime. And so the work that we do is standing on the shoulders of that work, and it is derivative in that sense. Our brains create what we create through a sort of iterative process as well. But again, I think what's missing is the human being at the steering wheel of that process, which is, again, this is a little bit reductive, but again, thinking of it as a tool to be used by the artist as opposed to something that is replacing the artist.
LJR: And I know by virtue of, you've already talked about your age, the humans at the center of what you're thinking about are not just like your potential audience. Humans that are growing [JS: yeah] that we have now become responsible for, we've always been responsible for. That we’re gonna launch pretty soon.
JS: Yeah, for sure.
LJR: Our kids. And I know you talked about that. How does that feature in the work you’re doing or the things you’re thinking about and the creative process or the output of your creative process?
JS: I mean, it's an interesting question. I, you know, it's funny. We just to, you know, rewind a second on the AI. Like we do talk about AI in our house and my son, who is a math kid, is very into the potential for AI. And I think this, it's super interesting. My daughter, who is the poet activist, electric guitar player is like, “No AI. Down with AI.” So we have
LJR: …some debates.
JS: Yeah. So we have some fun dinner conversation there. But yeah, I mean, you know, my kids, my family is very much at the heart of everything that I do. My writing partner and I are. Constantly looking for a great father-daughter story to tell. You know, about 50 percent of what we write is living in that sort of family adventure space, a lot of which is animation. Anyway, so yeah, we, we draw from life experience all the time. We take the good and the bad and try to, you know, put it into the work as much as possible. But yeah, I mean, that's, it's, you have to, you have to draw from, you know, what moves you, I guess, and that, that certainly is a big part of it.
LJR: And this might have been better placed in the beginning of the conversation, but it just kind of struck me when you were talking about that and how particularly for stories that feel so personal, part of the creative’s, your being, your sense of who you are, is just creating that and getting that out. But out, like out onto the page or out with your partner. Then there's the commercialization part, right? So these things are not necessarily going to see the light of day beyond a small circle. Some will, some won't. How do you think about that? Like does, does it matter to you at this point? I mean, I know we all need to have money and put food on the table, but like what, what matters in the creation process right now?
LJR: That's, that's a great question. I think, you know, I think by virtue of, the business that I'm in by, you know, being a screenwriter who's written 30 or 40 screenplays over the course of my career and seeing only a fraction of those actually get produced, like, that's pretty typical for most screenwriters that I know. Every one is intended to make it to the screen. [LJR: Sure.] Every one is intended to turn into a movie. That's a weird thing about being a screenwriter is there really is no final output. There's nothing that we create that then you can sell in a bookstore or, you know what I mean? Like it is literally a living, breathing blueprint document that is meant to be used for a secondary medium, which is the direction and the filmmaking part of it. So I think there are times that if we find something that's like particularly important to us or somehow like you know, an emotionally captivating expression of what it means to be a human being that's in an old script that doesn't make it to the light of day, those themes weave in and out of our work over the course of time. And I think they take a different form depending on the context of, of any given piece of work. But, you know, I think that I would say everything that, that we try to create on the page is something that is intended to be shared with a larger audience. And if it doesn't, if it doesn't make it, then, you know, it lives to fight another day.
LJR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good way to look at it.
JS: I think that's, that's it, man. I think it's really just like, you know, we're stepping into this whole new world of kids growing up and, you know, before long, looking at what our lives look like with kids out of the house, and I'm sure that will be another period of redefinition for a lot of us in terms of what it means to be a parent or a mom or a dad or, you know, or just an individual, you know, with your own set of worries and concerns and, you know, observations about the world. I think we're not too far from that some closer than others and, you know. I'm clinging on to every day between now and then, but, but I'm excited for it too. I, you know, it's…every phase of life is has its challenges and rewards and new things we get to experience. And, you know, I think the more that we can sort of embrace it all as it happens, the greater chance we have for finding some sort of happiness in this crazy mix of humanity.
LJR: And better storytelling. All fodder for the next screen play.
JS: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
LJR: Well, thank you so much for catching us up. We're excited to hear and see what, what next comes out of the crazy brain mind that you have going on and your observations on humanity. So, Stew, thanks so much for being here.
JS: It's my pleasure.
LJR: That was Jonathon "Stew" Stewart, who is a screenwriter, producer, and consultant for business, education and content creators. With his long-time creative partner Eyal Podell, he has written for the likes of Pixar, Warner Brothers, Dreamworks, Paramount, Sony, and Netflix. He has two kids who will invariably feature in his future storytelling.
Do YOU know someone whom we should feature on OUR future storytelling? Use the Contact us link at RoadsTakenShow.com to let us know. And while you're there, check out our full archives and show notes on all your favorite episodes with me Leslie Jennings Rowley, on Roads Taken.