So many of our previous guests have talked about the power of friendship and the importance of the networks and relationships that we built in our college days. Today, we get to hear from two individuals—Sheryl Jacobson and Sunni Chauhan—whose bond was forged over three decades ago and remains a constant in their lives no matter where their paths take them. They talk together about how that friendship was built, how it has been sustained, and what is has meant to each of them...on today's Roads Taken.
Sunni Chauhan and Sheryl Jacobson became friends freshman year of college, living in the same distant dorm near the river. Across the years, never living in the same city, they have maintained a close friendship that has sustained them. In this conversation, they discuss their friendship's origin story, how they have kept the relationship going over the years and what it has meant to each of them.
You can hear each one of their stories on a previous Roads Taken Episode. Sunni was featured in Episode 143 called Merging Interests and Sheryl was featured in Episode 144 called The Sometimes Lonely Road.
Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com
Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings Rowley
Music: Brian Burrows
Email the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com
Sheryl Jacobson: We always kept in touch. There's times when it's been like any friendship, when it's been closer. And then there have been times when it's been a while, you know? But it's that classic, like, you, you pick up where you left off.
Sunni Chauhan: And it's sort of the sense of home, in a way, that wherever we are in the world, we have each other.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: So many of our previous guests have talked about the power of friendship and the importance of the networks and relationships that we built in our college days. Today, we get to hear from two individuals, Sheryl Jacobson and Sunni Chauhan, whose bond was forged over three decades ago and remains a constant in their lives no matter where their paths take them. They talk together about how that friendship was built, how it has been sustained and what it has meant to each of them on today's roads taken with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
So today is the very first episode where we have two classmates who have been friends forever speaking at the same time, and it's going to be all about friendship. So I have Sunni in London and Sheryl in New York. And they are going to tell us about their origin story and how they have kept this going for all these many years.
SJ: I love it. Origin story. Cause we're like the superhero friendship. I love it. Sunni just points at me to start. That's how, that's where we are.
So I just did the math. And math is not my forte. I was a history major. We've been friends like 31 years. Going on 32. Because we met our freshman year. We were in the same dorm in French, right? We were in the river in French. And when, as folks will remember, when you live in the river, you get to know everybody in the river in your building and beyond. And I forget, Sunni, did, it wasn't our, was it our freshman trip that we met on? We weren't on the same one, because I did kayaking, but…
SC: I don't think it was the freshman trip, but I have lots of memories of hanging out on the ground floor after a long night out. Before I made it up to the fourth floor. And all kinds of conversations.
SJ: That's right. Yeah, cause I was on, I was to the right. You walked in and it was Patsa and it was a really good, it was a really good floor and stopping ground before you had to make it up. So lots of long walks to and from the river. And then we pledged Kappa together. And so spent a lot of time as Kappas, as well. Lots of formal pictures. I have, oh, I gotta send you a bunch of pictures. I found an old photo album, back when we had physical photo albums, and I have a whole bunch of incriminating photos from Kappa events, so just...
LJR: Amazing. And then, when you, when you graduate from the river, did you immediately live together?
SJ: We never lived together. I mean..
SC: Well, we lived next to each other in Kappa.
SJ: That's right. Ok. Fair enough.
SC: So we both pledged Kappa, which was, I think, part of our journey together. Probably joined for different reasons, but took comfort in each other's friendship through the sorority journey. And it was sophomore summer where we both managed to score singles in Kappa, but next to each other. And I think that was another really formative part of our friendship. I have to go back to the river though, because I think one of the things where we kind of just got to know each other, better before that was not just the walking to and from the river, but the very late night conversations on the ground floor. Sheryl lived on the ground floor and I lived on the fourth floor. And after you walk all the way back to the river, it was still a bit of an effort to get to the fourth floor in a walk up. So I just treasured actually having a buddy that I could hang out with that didn't kick me out. Make me walk up the stairs before I was ready to. And so we've been on lots of different journeys together, I think.
LJR: So, during the time we're trying to figure out who we are, what was it about each other's personality that kind of helped the other find who they themselves were?
SC: It's a really good question, Leslie. I think that we were both, had very different journeys coming to Dartmouth, but were maybe looking for some of the same things when we got there, in terms of who we were and who were we going to become—to sort of your questions, Leslie— in that, and had a lot of the same values, and I sort of know us both for being really, really picky people, and therefore somehow we found each other in the amazing campus experience that we had.
SJ: I think for me as well, like, and it's the same things I think that keep, like, our friendship alive and I so appreciate. It's like there's this combination of intelligence, curiosity, drive, and then just kindness and, you know, not kindness without like thoughtfulness, you know, kind of thing, but that well, Sunni, so it's, yeah, it's all the things I really appreciate now I think were the things that were there in college as well.
LJR: I think that sounds exactly right. And as we're leaving and starting our careers, you guys are kind of venturing though in different directions, kind of on the same kind of path. So was it part of talking one another through those first few years and how you get on the career ramp that you're going to choose? Did that also kind of help where you guys were, how you guys could continue to connect even if you weren't living so close?
SC: Well, there's one thing before the careers thing that brings me back to almost where we are, which was working with Holly Sateia in the dean of student life on what was the leadership discovery program. Leadership is a really big word, and I don't know that I necessarily knew what it meant when we were there. But we got to spend time going to high school, girls high schools, and talking about different styles of leadership. And I think through that program, we probably learned a lot about ourselves and each other that indirectly translates into some of that shared experience. And then some of that leadership journey as we went through our respective careers. But I was meant to be a doctor. And so for me, the corporate ladder was meant to be a short two years. But I do remember actually that whole corporate recruiting time on campus and lots of
SJ: I still have nightmares about it.
SC:…lots of preparation, lots of what are we going to wear to these interviews? I don't know that I had proper shoes when we were at Dartmouth. And so I think going through the early days of that journey, again, sort of, it's when you need your friends. Because there's a lot of rejection along the way.
SJ: There was a lot of Ann Taylor clearance that was happening at some point in swapping of clothing, which people may not remember. I'm like, you know, 5'10, 5'11 and Sunni's like 5'6 or so, so the swapping of clothing did not always work out to anyone's advantage. But then I agree with all that. And then I, the thing that helps, I was based in Boston right out college but started working internationally pretty quickly, regardless. That was what I wanted in my early career was any country, any issue. I wanted to go and explore. But I was dating somebody in New York for that first year, and that is where Sunni was based. And so, it was a fun catch up, and we would, you know, obviously, you know, talk career, and Sunni and I both worked really hard, invested a huge amount of ourself in our work. And then setting the foundation for longer. [One] could argue, was it too much? Was it too little? Whatever, we were in our 20s, we can't have any real regrets. And kind of just figuring out life, and figuring out men. Sunni had already met Amit at that point, and they were sorting out what they were going to do, and I was not destined for, you know, marriagehood and parenthood until much later, so I don't know what the heck I was sorting out. Life, I guess.
And then, funnily enough, I moved to London at that point, and then Sunni, Amit was based in London, and so then she would come and visit on that side. And so then we kind of just traded cities and I would say like, we always kept in touch. There's times when it's been like any friendship when it's been closer, you know, where we've actually seen each other or like when I was based in Asia, I would come to London and spend a weekend. Sunni was like one of the first people that knew that I was pregnant with my son, all that. And then there have been times when it's been a while, you know. But it's that classic, like you pick up where you left off, you know, for, for the most part. And you catch up and have too much wine and a few boozy lunches and you're back again. But yeah, it's been lovely. We've never been in the same city. We keep trading back and forth.
SC: But I think the…I definitely worked too much through my twenties and didn't value or invest in friendships as much as I've grown to really value them today. But I think it was that shared experience that even though we weren't seeing each other as much as we might like to, that we were still there for each other when we needed that. And I still remember, I mean, life when we were 25 felt so hard. We were working 80, 100 hours a week and traveling like mad and that was seemed really complex. And I think it's as we go through these life stages where we didn't know how easy it was when we only had one priority, which was work. When you have kids and parents and sort of drama and stress at work and at home, that's really when you're so lucky to have these friendships that you might not have invested in, but actually mean so much. And it's sort of this sense of home, in a way, that wherever we are in the world, we have each other and we keep endeavoring to be better. And I'm probably worse than Sheryl is about staying in touch. But we've been lucky to have reasons and times to come together and really make the most of the time we have together.
LJR: I love that. Do you guys think that it was because of the timing of meeting one another when you were really putting your own roots in the ground and figuring out who you were that this has been the big relationship of your life? I mean, at any one point in any…either of your lives, you could have met that person that was going to be kind of your rock. But what do you attribute it to…this, the power of this friendship?
SJ: Yeah, for, I mean, I moved around a huge amount before I hit Dartmouth. 12 times or something like that. So I don't have friends longer than Sunni. I have some people in high school that I've kept in touch with. But I do think there's a, you know, come to campus, haven't ever seen or experienced anything like this before. Yeah, definitely figuring out who I am, figuring out what I'm capable of and what I'm not capable, you know, of. And to find someone that you can talk to, and trade ideas with, and be yourself with, and be messy, and kind of messed up, and come home way too late a couple of nights, and whatever, and just have somebody there to talk it all through without judgment because they're sorting through the same things. And yeah, our backgrounds are wildly different in terms of, as Sunni said, how we got to Dartmouth. But in some ways our journey through Dartmouth wasn't particularly dissimilar, and yeah, to have that kind of constant that looked at the world the same way…I definitely think there's that. It was like a seminal moment and a seminal person in that seminal moment.
SC: I guess I imagine Dartmouth as this sort of bubble where we all grew up and we didn't necessarily figure out where our paths were going to take us. But it was really formative, and so we shared so many of each other's experiences that you always have that to fall back on in terms of an understanding of each other, the good things as well as the various mistakes, misjudgments, and everything along the way. And so it is something about the magic of that Dartmouth bubble, but translated across the world, across careers, across life stages where you just build and build and build on what was such a special time.
SJ: Can I tell my favorite Sunni story?
LJR: Of course.
SC: Uh-oh.
SJ: To do the magic of friendship now. So Sunni is very involved in a breast cancer charity. And since like, actually you're a board and founded one, it's amazing the work that you do. And then there's this particular one that she’s not on the board of, but involved with, which is called the Moonwalk and it's huge in Britain for folks who are there, like, I don't know, 50,000 people do this in London. Like you basically power walk a marathon overnight. And they do it in major cities, so London and Dublin and Edinburgh. I don't know if Dublin but there's one in Iceland. And you basically go to a remote lake in Iceland and you walk around it, starting at midnight. And Sunni and I have been wanting to do something together, and we were like, why not? Like, it's crazy, it's for charity, it's wonderful, and we get to spend this time together, and I've never been to Iceland, all this stuff. So we train, or I train. Sunni moderately trains but she's super fit, so I end up dragging my butt around this lake, and Sunni's like, ooh. But we get to, we're talking and talking. And so we're walking slow. So at about mile like 19, we're like, okay, we got to get our headphones in. We just got to get this thing done. So we do that. And I swear the wind is in our face all the way around the circular lake, which I realize is not really possible, but that is exactly how it felt like. And then the last like two to three miles, like it was just blowing, like you had to lean into it. And so like I'm getting mad. I don't know why. I don't know at whom, I, like, the wind, the Norse wind gods, I don't know. But I am, like, getting, like, really angry at this moment. And I'm, like, cursing, and internally, at least. And I look over, and Sunni's got her headset in, and she's, like, dancing. She's just, like, doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. And I was, like, I need to be more like Sunni. Like I just, I need to look at life with like a positivity, like this is fun. And we have a couple more miles to go and then it'll be over and we'll have a massage and go see blue whales and like focus on that. And I know it sounds so small, but it's like the seminal moment for me on like approaching life. And I tell that story because one, it's this amazing thing about Sunni, but then two, I think it's this amazing thing about just friendship. How no matter how long you've been friends, no matter how long that you've known somebody, that they can still fundamentally change how you approach the world. And it really did cause me to do a really significant pivot on just life and my outlook and what I actually wanted. So thank you, Sunni for that. It's one of my favorite stories because you were just being you. You weren't doing anything else, you know, you're just being Sunni and the being of Sunni then like caused me to reevaluate and rethink who I was. And that's, that's what I think a core tenet of friendship is. That's my favorite Sunni story and I had to tell it.
SC: Oh my god. It was amazing. An amazing thing to do. I will say we were walking and not running because I'm not sure I would have been dancing and smiling if we were running. And it was extra brutal that they had added a mile and a half to the marathon length just so we could end where we started. And so that was particularly mean when the wind was horizontal. But I really treasure those four or five days with Sheryl in the middle of nowhere in a landscape we'd never been to was just the time for me and for us that is so hard to carve out of our crazy lives these days. And so, her support for me and the charity stuff that I'm trying to do was amazing, but actually, just precious time. So, I don't have a seminal Sheryl moment, because Sheryl is an inspiration to me always. Her grace and her elegance and just her sense of adventure through her career, moving around the world, moving to China. I don't think I've still ever been to mainland China. But I just think of Sheryl and think of how strong and professional I would like to be and I don't know. I mean buying a townhome in Harlem. Her weddings have been the most incredible weddings I've ever been to in the BVI and Trinidad. Sheryl can throw a party let me tell you. It has to be for a super super special occasion. But I don't think I've ever had as much fun or as much laughs with friends in environments I've never been in before. So I treasure the inspiration that Sheryl is and so lucky, so lucky to have been at Dartmouth to start with, but so lucky to take away so many amazing friends and Sheryl as a sort of, as you say, kind of this lifelong kind of companion.
SJ: Just wait till our 50th in Morocco. I got plans.
LJR: Wow, I love it. Well, this has been delightful and I just I'm so envious actually that you've retained this special force in each of your lives. And as a collective, it just seems to be just something really special. So thanks for sharing that with us.
SJ and SC: Thank you.
LJR: That was Sunni Chauhan and Sheryl Jacobson. You can hear each one of their stories on a previous Roads Taken episode. Sunni was episode 143 called Merging Interests. And Sheryl was episode 144 called The Sometimes Lonely Road.
I have to say there are no lonely roads for me on this show. I have loved talking to each one of my guests and thank them all for their time, their openness, and their generosity of spirit as they shared part of their roads traveled thus far. And I want to thank those guests-yet-to-come who are in the queue to sit down with me and create more memorable episodes. And of course, I want to thank our listeners who have come along on this winding and wonderful road with us over the last few years and many seasons. We are taking another hiatus to catch our breath, hopefully leaving you time to tap into the archives of our show at RoadsTakenShow.com to find those episodes you've missed or just want to visit again. As long as you're following us wherever you get your podcasts you'll get the notice as soon as we're broadcasting new stories with new guests and me, Leslie Jennings Rowley on Roads Taken.