When Mal Wrenn Corbin got to college, the bucolic, peaceful campus seemed not only like a haven but a world away from the turbulence of her life in post-industrial Worcester, Massachusettes. As she set out to find success in the professional world, there was always a feeling that perhaps she hadn't tucked that history far back enough and she would be found out as who she'd been. Once she decided to face the trauma in her past, she was able to recognize that her full story was worth telling. Find out how looking back and bridging the distance can sometimes show how far we've come.
When Mal Wrenn Corbin got to college, the bucolic, peaceful campus seemed not only like a haven but a world away from the turbulence of her life in post-industrial Worcester, Massachusettes. As she set out to find success in the professional world, there was always a feeling that perhaps she hadn't tucked that history far back enough and she would be found out as who she'd been. Once she decided to face the trauma in her past, she was able to recognize that her full story was worth telling.
In this episode, find out from Mal how looking back and bridging the distance can sometimes show how far we've come…on Roads Taken with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode’s Guest
Mal Wrenn Corbin has had a full career in the financial services industry, with experience in Fortune 500 companies, deepening client engagement and cultivating high profile client relationships, particularly with C-suite executives. Her successes there have tended to be shadowed, though, by deep seated trauma from her youth that she is finally addressing in her newly-published book Raising Wrenns: A Memoir. The book captures stories of her family’s life in post-industrial Worcester and how, unlike her brother and father whose lives were cut short there, she was able to leave and create a different life. Comparing and contrasting the Wrenn family’s behaviors with those of their avian namesake, the memoir touches on trauma and the strength it takes to fly.
Find out more at malwrenncorbin.com and be sure to get a copy of Raising Wrenns: A Memoir wherever you buy books.
For another story about someone coming to terms with who their parents could and couldn’t be for them, listen to our episode with Jackie Kim Chappel.
Mal Wrenn Corbin: I was feeling, wow, I've just been able to overcome so much and create a beautiful life for myself. But I think what I was later realizing was I wasn't truly successful yet because I, I hadn't been able to really deal with that history and deal with that past.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: When Mal Wrenn Corbin got to college, the bucolic peaceful campus seemed not only like a haven, but a world away from the turbulence of her life in post-industrial Worcester, Massachusetts. As she set out to find success in the professional world, there was always a feeling that perhaps she hadn't tucked that history far back enough and she would be found out for who she'd been. Once she decided to face the trauma in her past, she was able to recognize that her full story was worth telling. Find out how looking back and bridging the distance can sometimes show how far we've come on today's Roads Taken with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
Today I'm here with Mal Wren Corbin and we are going to talk about fledging from a nest and letting those wrens fly and how we tell that story. So Mal, thank you so much for being here with us.
MWC: Thank you, Leslie. Thanks for having me. It's been so fun listening to this podcast, and it's a real honor to be here with you today.
LJR: Well, I know you are a good listener, and so this is no surprise. When I get together with my guests, I ask two questions, and they are these. When we were in college, who were you? And when we were getting ready to leave, who did you think you would become?
MWC: Wow, that's a lot to unpack there. When I first landed at Dartmouth, Dartmouth was just such a new world for me. Much of my early life is, I would describe as really turbulent, like just a lot of tough dynamics. I grew up in Worcester, Massachusetts, which is a post-industrial town that, frankly, it's riddled with a lot of, a lot of challenges that you see in urban areas through poverty, addiction, violence, homelessness. In my family, the Wrenn family, was no exception to that. We frankly fit in really well there. So, you know, navigating a really complex early life and thankfully, you know, I somehow was able to overcome a lot of that with the help of a lot of people, of course. But it was a dream come true to land at Dartmouth. Like, this was such an opportunity, of course, to create a really different life for myself, and it was an exciting time. But I was also just terrified as all hell. You know, you land in this really beautiful, idyllic place, and you're surrounded by just brilliant people. And at the same time, It was really intimidating. You know, you, you also had a lot of wealth and a lot of people that grew up quite differently for me. And, and so I very much had this feeling like imposter syndrome, right? I don't know if I belong here. I feel incredibly lucky to have landed here, but are they all going to be able to tell that I'm this outsider and I'm not like the rest? Yeah, so I, I would say that's maybe who I was at the start of my Dartmouth career for sure, for starters.
LJR: Yeah, well you had really overcome so much just to put a foot in the door. Already, on one hand, yes, you have the imposter syndrome. But on the other, it's like, I am a huge success, like, wow. From that to this, different worlds, and navigating, of course, how you straddle those worlds is something different. And maybe we can talk about that in a minute, but when you were progressing through, like, where were the places that you plugged in where you said, okay, I belonged in this world, this other world, I still kind of do, but here, I belong in these worlds, and how did you get there?
MWC: Yeah, I a lot of trial and error, you know definitely my, my sorority Delta Gamma and the sisters there. Just I think having the ability to make those close one on one connections with people so that, you know, you could know them as the humans that they were and vice versa as opposed to ‘Oh gosh. This this person grew up so much differently than me.’ And so that was that was really powerful and it was also a really interesting time too. Because even though I, you know, was rooted in this world that I was looking to escape, I also didn't feel like I belonged there either. And so it was this really, you framed it beautifully, straddling really two really different worlds where I didn't feel like I squarely fit in either one anymore. But yeah, I would definitely say those close friend connections were just imperative and really paramount for m helping me feel like I had a place there at Dartmouth.
LJR: Yeah, and so you and I intersected a little bit because you were a geography major, I was modified. So I, you know, I think we had a few classes together. What was that like and, I mean, I don't think there were many that thought, I'm going to be a geographer, but how did that ground kind of the things you were interested in and what you thought next steps could possibly be?
MWC: Yeah, oh my gosh, what—geography, like that just, special place in my heart because let's be honest, I took that first geography class thinking, okay, this sounds interesting, hopefully, it shouldn't be too difficult. And you know, I really focused on the social science side of geography, and I just distinctly remember studying the sense of place. And wow, did that just…could I relate to that concept as I'm guessing we all can. And that just really touched home for me that sense of place. Growing up in a place like Worcester and the deep emotions that are tied to that And then sense of place that you have in a place like Dartmouth and in Hanover. I just fell in love with the topic of geography particularly from a social science perspective and just I can't say enough about it. And I know we haven't touched on this, but just launching this, this memoir that I've put out definitely honed in on just that, the topic of sense of place and my time at Dartmouth and just how powerful those emotions can be, and that, that coursework just really just touched a nerve for sure.
LJR: Yeah, yeah. No, I do want to talk to you about this memoir, because as we're recording this, it is just hot off the presses, and I'm so excited for that. But let me do a little bit of tying what happened between college and this memoir—that's a long time, I actually hate to say. But, what's coming up for me though with this geography and sense of place is, it wasn't as though you were escaping home, you were just getting this new, new home, and a new slice of life and everything. But that sense of place still stuck with you because right after college you remained in the home area. You know, you're back to Massachusetts and that's going to was, was that, did you just know, like in my soul, this is who I am, I'm going to stay here.
MWC: I didn't. I didn't know that. I think, you know, for me, I was in those early years really focused on reinventing myself and just trying to create success. And trying to achieve, you know, what I thought success would look like. And so, for me, it was a lot of, frankly, shunning that history and that past and really trying to create distance from it. And, you know, I think it's, it wasn't, frankly, until much later in life that, I was feeling to your earlier point, wow, I've just been able to overcome so much and create a beautiful life for myself. But I think what I, I was later realizing was I wasn't, I wasn't truly successful yet because I hadn't been able to really deal with that history and deal with that past and get comfortable or as comfortable with it as you can and frankly own it as a part of who you are and to feel proud of that, too.
Yeah, so I, I did ultimately come back to Massachusetts and complex feelings there. I didn't go back to Worcester per se, but even just being in Massachusetts, I just, and I described this in the book, like there's a, for me, a distinct feeling as you're coming down the Mass Pike and you cross from Connecticut, for example, into Massachusetts. There's a distinct shift in that sense of place feeling for me anyway. And that is both nostalgic, and a good feeling, and it's also like, brace yourself and hold on to your seat.
LJR: I know that feeling in various places. Yes. Yes.
MWC: We're going back in.
LJR: All right. So you do kind of take that step after college into a professional realm. You're doing various business type things and you're having successes. And in that, whatever, whoever gets to define what that looks like, you're doing them, you're checking them off. So when did it feel like the success and sense of wholeness really needed to be rooted in this looking back and dealing with the distance you've created and how long was that percolating and what's the process to becoming a memoirist? Internal and external.
MWC: I think so many of us—and this is the irony of frankly feeling like I was so different when I landed at Dartmouth—The reality is there are so many people who have their things, right? And I'm learning that now as I've talked more and more about this. It's frankly pretty awesome to have people that approach you and say, Hey, I had this going on in my life and they're opening up and telling their story. I love that so much. But it honestly, Leslie, wasn't until I was about 40 years old when I realized I, I really, I need to, I need to tackle this. When I first got married, 27 years old. I could not wait to change my last name. I couldn't get rid of Wrenn fast enough. Again, it was just shedding all of that darkness. And fast forward all this time, you know, now I'm 49 years old. And as I took on this process of writing the book, honestly, I still, I think, was dealing with it on, dealing with all of those memories on a very surface level. And I thought, you know, I've been told over the years, oh, you're so well adjusted, and you'd never know, and, you know, look at the life you built for yourself.
LJR: I hear you with trying to shed one identity so that you can kind of get rid of some stories and all of that. But recognizing those stories are going to come back and I'm going to have to deal with them. Other people might, and maybe you did this as well, but you know, deal with those feelings and start processing that through journaling or therapy or whatever. When does somebody say, I'm going to kind of air all of this in a more public fashion?
MWC: Yeah. For me, and certainly over the years in talking with people, people make comments and this is not unusual for a lot of folks, I think where, gosh, you should, you should really think about writing a book and you never, you know, it's, Okay, that, that, that sounds neat. But you know, what's funny about having those feelings that I had back in Dartmouth where oh my gosh I don't know if I belong here. I'm kind of sneaking in a bit under the radar it feels like, I had those similar feelings working in the corporate world post-college. Like you're wearing a suit And hopping on a plane to meet with clients and you're talking about the challenges of Americans not saving enough for retirement and you're having fancy dinners and having conversations about where do you summer. It just, again, it was another scenario where I was feeling like. Oh my gosh, do they, they don't know. And so it was that awkward, it was an odd balance, like trying to just fit in somewhere and blend in and not be known; but at the same time this deep desire to be known and to be understood. And I think ultimately just that wanting to be understood you know, took over and overpowered that, that feeling of wanting to just blend in and hide a bit.
LJR: Okay, so any book, a novel you know, treatise about physics or whatever—the subject matter expert is having to do all this research. Your research is like internal, what am I not, you know, you said you were shunning it. Like, what have I forgotten? What do I not want to deal with? You're having to do that. What does the writing process for that look like? And you know, what are all the markers of being an author in its own right? But with this layer of whoo this is big and emotional. What does that look like?
MWC: Yeah. Much more emotional than I anticipated, which sounds silly, right? Because you're really digging in. But again, all of those stories and memories were very surface level for me. And if I'm being transparent, I did, I did work with a professional writer. I knew I had a story to tell, and I really wanted somebody who could help me just, how do we pull this together in a way that's really powerful? And I underestimated what that process would look like. It was over 40-plus hours of recorded interviewing where, you know, I would tell the stories and, and she would stop me and say, Now hold on a moment. In that moment, you know, what, what do you see in that room? What are you hearing? What do you smell? And I was like, Oh, no, I was, I was not prepared for that. And so it was a much deeper process and experience than I had ever thought it would be, including, I did a lot of investigative work, you know, getting in touch with department of social services and gathering reporting about, you know, what are the facts behind what happened? I have my memories, but what are the facts? And frankly, that was, that was earth shattering for me.
LJR: Yeah, they don't always, they're not the same, right?
MWC: Yeah, even at memories from being 12 and 13 years old, when you, you think, of course I remember those details. But it is, I know you, you hear this a lot, people who suffer trauma, perhaps suppress memories. Completely normal, of course. I never saw myself as that. And so then to be reading facts in black and white from a time that I thought I so clearly remembered was Oh my gosh, like my brain had been trying to protect me too.
LJR: Yeah, well, that and a layer of maybe those facts were exactly as you…you experienced them exactly as the letter of the law or the paper or the report says. But the processing at the time—your lens was different than a 49 year old's lens who understands legal or what should happen or normative processes or whatever. That it's just different. You know?
MWC: You're so right.
LJR: It's not to say that you were wrong. It's just that you had a different perspective then.
MWC: For sure. For sure. Yeah. It's a great point.
LJR: So what did you learn about yourself through that process? Do you have more kindness toward that younger person? Do you have more kindness toward the place? Do you have anger and bitterness. I don't see that in your face or your demeanor, but what were the things that came up for you?
MWC: Yeah, I think like for every, anybody, relationships are so dynamic and fluid and constantly evolving. And you know, so I've certainly have had periods where you know, had anger toward my parents and that still continues to shift. Sometimes one parent will bear, will have to bear more of the anger than the other. And not necessarily for any good reason. I think, I think I've always known this, but what's important for me to remind myself of is that my parents made terrible, horrible decisions. Like they were, frankly, they were neglectful. But they weren't monsters. Like they weren't mean-spirited people. And so, you know, I definitely try to keep that in check. And yeah, but those feelings are definitely fluid, and I suspect that they'll continue to be so, especially as now I put this memoir out there. This is, it's a different phase, I think, you know, having to interact with those memories in a different way than I ever have before. So, here we go.
LJR: Yeah, here we go. And again, to my, to my earlier part about kind of perspective and context, that you are a mother now, and so you recognize that you're doing your best given competing priorities and really complex things out in the world, right? So that must be another layer for you.
MWC: That’s right. Oh, it really is and timely topic because my sweet boy, quote, unquote, boy, Jack turns 20 years old today. And that's right, and there's, there's something so powerful in being a parent, of course, in and of itself. But in the wake of trauma, you see those events through a very different lens now and trying to envision your own child experiencing those, those events and it's. Yeah, it's, that's a wild ride in and of itself. But just the feeling of wanting to protect him from any and all potential evils, which obviously is not, not realistic, but
LJR: It's hard, too, because often we swing the pendulum a little too far from where we had had it, you know? And so I'm sure there's this balancing act now that you've really taken stock of where. You maybe wanted life to go. It didn't go that way. I'm going to do that for my kid, you know, be on the other side for my kids.
MWC: Oh, entirely true. The amount of overcompensating that happens over here. I have to keep that in check, too. I mean, when he was a child, he could have asked me to have a pet alligator and I would have said, let's go pick out a nice collar for, yes, let's do that. Yeah.
LJR: Right. Right. So, I'm going to ask a broad question and then we can get to specifics. So, you know, one of my fancy questions that I asked at the beginning is, Who did you think you would become? So, who did you think this, or what did you think this book would become? And has it lived up to that? Or has it done something else? I know you're at the beginning of kind of, birthing into the world.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think Gosh, what a complex journey it is to the world. You question, like, is my story worth telling? You're looking on some level for validation. You want to make sure you put something of good quality out into the world. And frankly, I love the idea of, again, creating space for people to connect, be able to relate and to be able to talk about their own stories, and I love being a safe space for that. So I think those are some of my hopes for it. It's really early in the process. But I think even taking the leap of putting it out there, just that initial step before anybody even reads it. I just have been amazed at the support that everybody has shown me. The response has just been overwhelmingly positive and warm and supportive. And particularly from the Dartmouth community, by the way. So, I just am, I'm so grateful.
LJR: Well, it's because all of us are like, first of all, it's hard to put out a book. Secondly, it's hard to own up to some of this, like, deep digging that you have to do. And the stamina it takes to do a book, and the hard, the hard work. It's just, it's incredible. It's incredible.
MWC: Indeed. Well, thank you.
LJR: And you have another life going on, right? You still have a job.
MWC: I do.
LJR: And you still have a family, and you still.
MWC: I do.
LJR: This is just “and.”
MWC: Yeah, yes. And in full transparency, I started this process almost six years ago.
LJR: Right.
MWC: So it's definitely been, you know, fits and starts. Yeah, but I definitely underestimated, too. You know, I think when I first started, I thought, Oh, this will, I'll have it published in a year. Wrong. It probably took four years just to write it, and then, you know, you, you finish with your draft manuscript, and you think, okay, let's go find a publisher,
LJR: That’ll be easy.
MWC: And, oh my gosh, and that, you know, that was a whole ‘nother year, and then once I started working with a publisher, Here it is. It's been almost another year. So I just what a what a process. But yes, I do very much have a full time job that I'd call demanding these days. So this has actually been a really great passion for me to focus some energy on. Yeah, this labor of love. LJR: So is there kind of a story within the story that you would like to share that you want people to kind of walk away with or do you want to just have me send people to read it?
MWC: Hmm. I feel like I maybe tackled the like the core hope [LJR: yeah] and what I hope people will also walk away with is that we're all entitled to a happy, healthy, beautiful life of our own. And, you know, sometimes you just, you really have to fight for that. But as a starting point, you have to believe that you deserve it and demand it a bit. And so I just would, I would love for everybody to kind of take that recognition for their own selves, if you will, and claim that if they don't have it already.
LJR: Yeah. Well, I'm delighted that you kind of claimed that your story is worth telling and that you've done the hard work for the benefit of all of us, that we can read and I'm sure have it spark other things for our own stories. So thank you so much for all of this work and for being brave and for sharing and for sharing with us on Roads Taken.
MWC: Thank you, Leslie. It's been a pleasure.
LJR: That was Mal Wrenn Corbin, who's had a full career in the financial services industry, with experience in Fortune 500 companies, deepening client engagement, and cultivating high profile client relationships, particularly with C-suite executives. Her successes there have tended to be shadowed, though, by deep seated trauma from her youth that she's finally addressing in her newly published book, Raising Wrenns: A memoir. The book captures stories of her family's life in post-industrial Worcester and how, unlike her brother and father, whose lives were cut short there, she was able to leave and create a different life. Comparing and contrasting the Wren family's behaviors with those of their avian namesake, the memoir touches on trauma and the strength it takes to fly. Look for Raising Wrenns with two Ns wherever you buy books. Links are also in the show notes.
We're so grateful that our guests bring us along on their journeys past and present each week, and we thank you listeners for coming along every week with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley, on Roads Taken.