Realizing he wanted to be close to the science and the impacts that the science would have on people’s lives, Chris McGee still had to work at finding a pathway into the biotech industry. He did make it on the path, but not without exploring some exciting byways thanks to some friends. Find out how momentarily getting off the path you’re on—even the right one—sometimes lets you travel it more wisely.
Guest Chris McGee loved science--even lab work--but it was really the story behind the science that captivated him. He thought that probably meant being in the biotechnology industry, but wasn't exactly sure how that would manifest in his life right after college. In an early attempt, he realized he was too far removed from the impact of the work. At the next company, he was getting closer to the actual work, but it wasn't the kind of work I wanted to be doing. At that point, the suggestion from a friend to pack it up and take an adventure to Nepal provided the welcome break he needed. He extended his adventuring with another friend but finally decided to move across the country for both professional and professional reasons.
In this episode, find out from Chris out how momentarily getting off the path you’re on—even the right one—sometimes lets you travel it more wisely…on Roads Taken with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode’s Guest
Chris McGee currently serves Portfolio and Project Management Team Leader at Pfizer, where he has worked in various capacities since 2006. While dodging potentially ill-advised adventure offers from friends, he has his own adventures with his wife and two children in Brooklyn. (207)
For another story centered on pharmaceutical development, listen to ourepisode with Drew Natenshon.
Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com
Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings Rowley
Music: Brian Burrows
Email the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com
Chris McGee: So I kind of learned from that like I was too far removed with the first company that I was at. I was getting closer to the work, the actual work being done at the second company I was at. But it wasn't the kind of work I wanted to be doing. And then from there, I really tried to find my way into a company that was in the industry. And that was a really challenging leap for me.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: Realizing he wanted to be close to the science and the impacts that the science would have on people’s lives, Chris McGee still had to work at finding a pathway into the biotech industry. He did make it on the path, but not without exploring some exciting byways thanks to some friends. Find out how momentarily getting off the path you’re on—even the right one—sometimes lets you travel it more wisely…on today’s Roads Taken, with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
I'm here today with Chris McGee and we are going to talk about paths that have a before and after story and even once you're in a place how things can change. So Chris, thanks so much for being here.
CM: Thank you, Leslie.
LJR: I start this the same way every time I speak to someone and have two questions. They are these: When we were in college who were you? And when we were getting ready to leave, who did you think you would become?
CM: You know, after listening to these podcasts, I know that you're gonna ask those two questions and I really hadn't even, you know, thought about those two. You know, I don't know…I, the short answer is I don't…it's kind of hard to go back to who you thought you were—what are we?—26 years ago? I would say I was really trying to I didn't, I don't, I don't think I knew who I was going to become, you know, or what exactly it was that I wanted to do. So maybe I really only have one answer for you around the those two things being together was: I think I had a general sense of what I wanted to do and no idea of how to do it or what that specifically was. So I think that in college I was a science, you know, biology, and an English major, and I loved the course catalog at Dartmouth. It was like a candy store, being able to just go through and look at this menu of classes to be able to take. And when that transitioned into like, okay, go figure out, you know, what you're gonna go do on your own and find your own path, that was really challenging. I knew that I wanted to do something with biology and I wasn't interested in being a doctor, right? That was like, I was not in a, in a pre-med path. And that was kind of the big question for me was like, okay, what do, what do I do with that?
LJR: Yeah. Was lab science something or was it really you, you were also part English major, so was it less kind of a focused structured biology-biology or more like life sciences?
CM: Yeah, I, I thought I thought about that kind of in the lead up to this, and so it, it was not that I, you know, really didn't like lab science. I can think of a couple of, a couple of labs that I really liked. You know, microbiology, neuroscience, I mean, those were really fun labs. So it wasn't, it wasn't specifically that, but there is an element to what you're saying of between the two: The story in the science was kind of more interesting to me than the investigation, the hands-on investigation. And you know, to that end, one of the, the favorite classes that I had at Dartmouth was history of neuroscience. And it was just the a hundred years of the seminal experiments that sort of advanced the science along the way as opposed to here's the state of what things are today. And it was how did they set these up and what did we learn from each one and how did that build? So there was an aspect of kind of connecting the story between both of those aspects of, of what I studied.
LJR: There isn't actually a, a catalog of who you're gonna be at 22 when you leave here, that you could have thumbed through. So what were the options that you thought were available to you and how did you get started on one of them?
CM: Yeah, I mean, I, I think first I probably thought too narrowly about things. As I said, I wasn't pre-med. I had professors who I bumped into on campus who asked me how my med school applications were going because I was in their biology classes, and they just assumed that that's what everybody in their biology classes were doing.
You know, I thought about science journalism. I thought about neuropsychology. So back when we were there, there wasn't a neuroscience department. I kind of, you kind of, a lot of people I think did this. But you know, I, I did a modified major, so it was biology modified with psychology that kind of approximates what would be the neuroscience major now.
I did a couple of preceptorships after college, like, you know, short things where I embedded, if you will, with neuropsychologists, to see what that was like, get a feel for that as a profession. And then, you know, I was also interested in biotech, and that was a point like when we graduated in the mid 1990s, when that was really beginning to flourish. It was still somewhat of a new thing, but it was also somewhat of an established thing. But I really had no idea how to break into that. And so it was probably a good six years after graduation before I found a way to kind of get onto the path that I'm on now with going through a number of different jobs in relatively short order that didn't fit for one reason or for another until kind of finding footing on the path.
LJR: Yeah. But what you were doing is something I don't think is encouraged enough, even today, in like actually trying on a job that you think you might like, like going and working with these neuropsychologists. What is it that they do? I don't know that they don't, we didn't even have a major on that. So find somebody who's like pushed it all together, doing it. I'm kind of shadowing or. You know, involved in their world. So you find out a lot of those things and okay, it took a couple of years in a couple of positions and then also probably gave the industry of biotech time to evolve, too, hat would allow you to find a way in. So how did you ultimately find that way?
CM: I started out at a market research firm. That was the first job that I had. They did market research for pharmaceutical and biotech companies and it was an interesting window, kind of a good learn, some skills starting out position, but it was also extremely repetitive. There was a formula and go through it and do it, and then rinse and repeat. And you know, I, I moved from there to a really small boutique consulting firm, which didn't happen to be focused on bioscience. I kind of, you know, after the first stint with this job, I thought, well, you know, maybe, maybe just being closer to these companies you're working with and, you know, everybody was kind of doing consulting jobs in Boston and that pretty quickly showed me, no, you really do wanna be involved in bioscience, like, kind of getting away from that substrate. What I was doing, kind of, yeah, it lost a lot of the interest in that, right? So I kind of learned from that like I liked being closer. I was too far removed with the first company that I was at. I was getting closer to the work, the actual work being done at the second company I was at. But it wasn't the kind of work I wanted to be doing. And then from there, I really tried to find my way into a company that was in the industry. And that was a really challenging leap for me. It had a couple of twists and turns along the way from that. But you know, one, one of those was Dan Kalafatas at the time was in Australia and he really, on his way home, wanted to do some traveling and was trying, he was casting about for people to go to go traveling with. And he thought, well, I don't know anybody that doesn't have a job, but I know a couple people that might want to quit their jobs. And so he hit up Mike Rigney and me and kind of, you know, spurred us and said, I know you guys don't like what you're doing right now. You should quit your jobs and come meet me and meet me in Nepal.
He, I think he got luckier than he thought he would. He went two for two with both Mike and I. That kind of gave us the spur to quit what we were doing. And that led to a period of probably about 12 months or so where I didn't have a career. We went over. I met up with Dan. We, you know, we traveled around for four weeks or so. Came back to Boston after that. And you know, I realized when I came back that it was now kind of close to the start of the summer and Jon Stoel happened to be about to spend the summer between his first and second year of law school up in Alaska. And he threw out the suggestion, Hey, why don't you come and why don't you come and join me and do that? So I met him down in DC and we drove from Washington to Anchorage, you know, via Portland and via Seattle in like 10 days and spent the summer up there. And then after that kind of came back and moved from Boston out to San Francisco which is where the woman who's now my wife was working at the time. And that's where I kind of found a, a small company to break into, to actually finally get into the inside of the bioscience industry.
LJR: So prior to our getting on this recording, you had told me everything kind of breaks down to a before and after with your meeting your wife. And I'm sure she looms the largest in your world. I would say Dan plays a pretty good part in that, though, a little before and after, kind of giving you a sense of mental break and probably perspective giving. I'm a little concerned about the Jon interlude. Was that like, it wasn't like the big fishing or crabbing or whatever they do in like Discovery Channel summers?
CM: No, no. Cause you know, I looked at doing that. Like, I mean, he had a real job and I was looking for a summer job. And I looked at doing some of those things, but those are pretty miserable things. Like, you know, people do those if you wanna like, try to make make a bunch of money in a short amount of time [LJR: Exactly.] But you're like working full-time. I wanted to do something that was gonna allow me to go explore while I was up there. So I worked at a micro brewery and, you know, then like we went hiking and, you know, fishing and whatever on the weekend for the month. So, you know, we got up there maybe the beginning of June. It wasn't quite the solstice, but you know, we were there for when there was about three hours of darkness and 21 hours of daylight or civil twilight. And then, you know, we we're there, you know, up until maybe a little bit before Labor Day.
LJR: Awesome. So back to this wife though, or soon to be wife. That's a lot of perspective shifting though, in a quick period of time. So you've had these experiences then you get to San Francisco already with job in hand or you just know that…
CM: No, it was more like, just sort of like, okay, let's just, you know, pick up steaks and try some different fertile ground and San Francisco, the Bay Area is obviously a, you know, a hotbed for what I knew I wanted to do. So I was just looking to change things up and explore in a new place, and I had an extra reason for going there.
LJR: Yeah. And, and that seemed to work out, right? So you, you kind of got yourself on that path that you always had an inkling that you'd be on, weren't exactly sure how or when you'd get there and started getting there. And still that didn't relegate you to stagnation because you could keep growing as the industry evolved, too. So tell us about kind of, what really did turn into a career career instead of just a series of jobs.
CM: Yeah. I started working at a, a company that was developing inhaled insulin. In retrospect, there was an interesting irony to it in that the partner that the company had for that, which was their lead product, was Pfizer, which is, you know, where I am now.
And so I was at that company for, you know, a couple of years. I got involved in new product planning looking at kind of new areas to develop their technology for. You know, I realized that at a smaller place, sort of the ability to move between levels and grow, I thought was more limited. Kind of the bigger steps to take. And so from there I had really wanted to get into a large biopharmaceutical company, and the pathway to do that was going to business school. So after a couple years two or three years in San Francisco, I went to North Carolina for business school, which was…yeah, I specifically chose a place that I knew had lots of pharmaceutical companies as recruiters and had a dedicated healthcare management program. And that kind of worked out exactly as I was hoping it would. I, you know, I went from there and I joined Eli. Lily and was at Eli Lilly for a couple years before then moving to Pfizer, and I've been now at Pfizer for the past 16.
LJR: Chris, earlier you had said that in a couple of your earlier roles, you realized you were too far away from the science. [CM: Mm-hmm.] And as you grow, particularly in larger organizations and have business school background and just the ability to think as you developed in a liberal arts education, were you finding that you were moving farther from the science? And did it matter in that environment or,
CM: I mean, I, I think what I was describing before is like I was kinda removed from the work, right? Like I was in professional services companies, right? So you sort of do a project and then you move on, right? But it's all, it's all very distant from like the, the end part of it. And so what struck home for me really was, you know, I wanted to be in an operating company and hands-on with producing, you know, the output. And so I think, you know, with Pfizer, the nice thing about, about being there, I said 16 years, so I'm kind of going on like my third career within the company. I think the first eight years that I was there, I worked in a particular area doing decision analysis and strategic assessments of late stage development programs. And I moved from that into a more operational role in our development organization looking across our portfolio. And I did that for another eight years. And now I'm actually just transitioning out of that role and into a specific project management leadership role focused on a particular part of our portfolio, our internal medicine development projects.
LJR: So it seems like that part of things really just kind of finally has gelled with that idea that early on you had of, I'd like to be in sciences. It doesn't have to be as a doctor, it's gonna be something that has a bigger impact. And you can kind of see the story like the through line of, of why this matters, right?
CM: Exactly. Yeah. And, and the interesting thing is, 16 years in many ways is like not that long a time when you comp compared to some other people that are, that are in the company. Like I have lots of colleagues who are, you know, celebrating 25, 30 year service anniversaries, which these days you kind of don't think, you don't conceive of spending, you know, that amount of time in one place. But the product cycles that you have in the industry are 10, 20 year product cycles. It takes 10 years to develop something. It has another 10 years of commercial life. So the like, the vantage point that that I have now within, you know, one organization for that period of time is really being able to see things go through that whole progression. See things go through the early stages of development where, you know, you don't know if it's gonna succeed or not, and most things don't. To, you know, then seeing okay, you know, which are the things that have succeeded and which haven't? And then of those things, which actually became really successful in helping patients once they reach the market, and which things, you know, maybe fizzled.
LJR: Yeah. Well, one thing that certainly hasn't fizzled is your relationship with your wife. So I'm just wondering if we can dig deeper on like, what motivated you to cite her as the kind of bright dividing line between before and after. What has your relationship been like?
CM: Well, I mean, I think that's kind of like the biggest decision you make in your life, right? Like who you're gonna spend your whole life with. So as this whole conversation sort of indicates, right, jobs come and go. But that, you know, like, I think that that aspect of who you decide you're gonna spend your life with. I mean, that could come and go too, right? For, you know, fortunately for me it hasn't. But that just seems like when you're talking about kind of the things that are, that are most important, it's at the end of the day, it's not necessarily your job.
LJR: Yeah, so it's your wife and Dan Kalafatas, so it's good to know.
CM: We'll have to edit that out.
LJR: No. I [am] totally in full agreement with that. But it also sounds like with your chosen family and those you were thrown into a family with at Dartmouth who've remained close to you, you've been pretty strong in that area for a long time.
CM: Yeah, and I, I think the other thing that, you know, like when I look at the most standout moments in my work career, I was at a, you know, one of these leadership get togethers that they have where, you know, development organization, they bring in the, you know, the first two layers of all of our development organization for some face-to-face got together. And as part of it, they had an introduction, you know, kind of some slides running as people were coming into the room with bios of the most senior folks who were in the development organization. And you know, among the things that were on this form of “little bit about you,” one of them was, “what are you most proud of?” And one of these slides cycles by of the guy who is heading our oncology organization. And, you know, this is somebody who like talk about accomplishments: He was,…it's hard to identify a single person responsible for something as large as bringing a medicine to market. But if you were to look at kind of one person who was the face of the, the head of leading this whole effort to bring transformative new oncology medicine that has since extended the lives of hundreds of thousands of women and men and—men do get breast cancer. It was a first in class therapeutic that really transformed care in a particular section of breast cancer. And yet, like his thing on, on his overview of like, what am I most proud of was his kids, you know? And, and it wasn't like anything that his kids had done. It was just…of everything that, you know, this guy could have cited, that was the one thing, and, and I've had conversations with other friends about that, where you kind of think, well, there's a temptation to sort of dismiss that. To think that, you know, on the one hand, like not everybody chooses to have kids. And you may have a little reticence of saying like, well, I don't wanna say I'm most proud of my kids, because that might be saying something about people who don't choose that path. Or on the other hand, you might have a reticence about saying that because, well, you know, that's no differentiating. Many people have that, right? And yet here was this guy who was, you know, unabashedly saying with everything else that he had done, like just these amazing accomplishments, that that was the thing he was proudest of. It's something that I think about, you know, like almost a daily basis of, you know, no matter what else you're doing, you are unique in that you are the one parent your kids will have. And you know, at the end of the day with everything else that you're doing, that's the thing to not lose sight of. And that, that example for me was a perfect one of not losing sight of that.
LJR: Yeah. And who are the people that you parent?
CM: I've got two, I've got a 15 year old who's just starting high school this year, my son, and then my daughter is just starting middle school this year.
LJR: Wow. Yeah, that's a big responsibility and, and a lot to be proud of in there. So, thanks for that.
So if you were to go back though, Chris, to that young, I'm just finding out who I am person in college, you know, with the professor saying, oh, how are the MCATs going and going, oh, should I be doing that? You know, how would he react to being told by this version of you, where you've been, how things have ended up?
CM: It's funny, I probably actually would say to go do the MCATs and go to med school, you know, and I referenced kind of earlier like that I probably was thinking about things too early. Like at, at that point, you know, I had a very kind of narrow view of like, if you get an MD, like you go and you, you know, you work with patients, you, you know, you're a doctor, you see patients, you treat folks, which is, you know, obviously what a lot of doctors do. But there's, you know, what I do now I work with tons of doctors, right? There's a whole host of things that you're doing with academic research, with research and industry and development. You know, so I don't think I really had an appreciation for what you could do with that degree. And I think that that would broaden a lot of things. So I would if I were going back, I would, I would give that advice. I've given that advice to a number of people that have asked me, you know, that are, that are at that point in their career. So you're saying, What should I do? What are you thinking about this or that? I mean, I think that kind of terminal degree whether it's a PhD or an MD like you, you, there are lots of other ways that you apply that than maybe what the sort of most obvious were. But I don't, I didn't really have that that perspective. I didn't, I don't think I sought out enough advice on, you know, if this is what my interests are, like, what are, you know, different ways to apply that? What are different things that I should do to enable that? I kind of had to cast about a little bit to kind of, sort of make it work.
LJR: Yeah. You found your way. And there's always time. You could go back for that terminal degree. I have all the faith in that. But it sounds like even without it, you have created a pretty strong portfolio both personally and professionally and I really appreciate your sharing it with us, and we just wish you the best wherever the next step takes you internal to where you are or a new chapter.
CM: All right.
LJR: That was Chris McGee, Portfolio and Project Management Team Leader at Pfizer, where he has worked in various capacities since 2006. While dodging potentially ill-advised adventure offers from friends, he has his own adventures with his wife and two children in Brooklyn.
Whatever adventure you're up to this holiday season, we hope your days are full of joy and good health. And if the end of the year period brings you a little welcome down-time, don’t forget there is a treasure trove of content waiting for you at RoadsTakenShow.com. And regardless of whether you’ve been naughty or nice, we’ll have one more gift for you on Boxing Day with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley, on Roads Taken.