When Kristen Calcagni Johnson had early thoughts of being a doctor, she figured it would be a good fit because of her ability to stay calm when everyone else was stressing out in an emergency. But even more core to her personality is her drive to experience many things, find joy in varied activities, and live into many facets of her identity. Find out how making space for being good at things and bad at things can help you bring a whole person approach to care-giving.
Guest Kristen Calcagni Johnson pinned her early thoughts of being a doctor on her ability to stay calm when everyone else was stressing out. But even more core to her personality is her drive to experience many things, find joy in varied activities, and live into many facets of her identity and a balanced life. Since she was choosing colleges to today, she has always known that—while she takes her work and her activities seriously—she is willing to accept a little imperfection if it means that she will have more room in her life for different experiences and time for loved ones. She even finds it imperative to find room in her life to engage in activities she “is bad at”—like tennis—to balance out a work environment in pediatrics that demands more precision.
In this episode, find out from Kristen how making space for being good at things and bad at things can help you bring a whole person approach to care-giving…on Roads Taken with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode’s Guest
Kristen Calcagni Johnson, as a friend once described her, is a woodworker, she sews clothes, she’s a big reader, she speaks Italian, by, the way, she’s a pediatrician. She practices with Core Physicians, affiliated with Exeter Hospital, in the New Hampshire Seacoast Region. She lives with her husband and two children there, where she was awarded the 2021 Exeter Chamber of Commerce Citizen of the Year, chiefly for her work on the front line of the pandemic, as a critical partner to the community and school district on health and safety issues. Had there been a furniture- or shed-building category, we are sure she would have come out on top of that one, too.
For another story about making sure you make time for multiple activities, even ones in which you’re less than talented, listen to our episode with Stephanie Argamaso.
Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com
Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings Rowley
Music: Brian Burrows
Email the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com
Kristen Calcagni Johnson: I ended up at Vermont after having grown up there, and I remember really distinctly part way through my first year, the dean sat down with each of us and said, On your application, you said you did these things outside of school and learning. Do you still do them? And if you don't, how can I support you doing them? Oh, and to me, that was when I knew I’d totally fallen into the right medical school for me.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: When Kristen Calcagni Johnson had early thoughts of being a doctor, she figured it would be a good fit because of her ability to stay calm when everyone else was stressing out. But even more core to her personality is her drive to experience many things, find joy in varied activities, and live into many facets of her identity. Find out how making space for being good at things and bad at things can help you bring a whole person approach to care-giving…on today’s Roads Taken, with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
I'm here today with Kristin Calcagni Johnson. And we are going to talk about being a whole person and what that even means, and when you figure out when you've gotten there, and all of that jazz. So Kristin, thank you so much for being here.
KJ: You're welcome. Thanks so much for inviting me. It's taken me a little bit to get the courage to talk to you and do this. But thanks for giving me the impetus.
LJR: I hope this will be pretty painless. That's probably what your line is, but we'll start with the same questions that I ask all of our guests, and they are these: when we were in college, who were you and when we were getting ready to leave, who did you think you would become?
KJ: So after listening to a number of these, I have thought about this a lot. So I was a girl from Vermont and I had a little bit of not thinking I was supposed to be intimidated by anything. I wanted to volunteer for the local rescue squad, and I was an EMT and my dad drove me because I didn't have a driver's license and I didn't think that was strange. But I also had a conversation with my parents before I started at Dartmouth, when I was trying to decide where to go to school. And my dad said, Hey, you know, if you. Pick a school here that is gonna really challenge you. You're gonna work really hard and you're not gonna get the good grades that you got in high school. Or you could go to a school where you wouldn't have to work quite as hard and you'll get some really pretty good grades. But we know you're not gonna get a hundred on everything cuz that's not who you are. So how do you wanna challenge yourself? Two of my classmates from my small high school had already been accepted early decision to Dartmouth. And so a little bit of imposter syndrome started all way all the way back then when Sean Mogan and Jenny Land were already planning on attending and being part of the class in 96. So Vermont girl for sure. Looking across the river at home.
LJR: Yeah. But you did take that leap and you did decide I'm gonna push myself.
KJ: I did. I know myself pretty well and I think that's continued to sort stand for me over my lifetime is realizing that I'm kind of an A-minus kind of person. I work really hard and I wanna do really well, but I don't need to go all in all the time to do it a hundred percent if it means that I get to do some other things. And I think that that was an important thing for me to know about myself and to have my parents challenge me about when I was looking at where I was going to go to college, so that I got the most out of that experience.
LJR: Yeah. And you did. You were all over, you were rowing, you were skiing, you were biology major. You, I don't know how you had time for anything, but I didn't do any of those things and I saw you a lot. So how, what was life like for you then?
KJ: Yeah, I did a lot of things and I think as I thought back a little bit about this conversation, those are the things that really made my experience at Dartmouth what it was. My kids would tell you—I have two kids now who are 10 and 12—and they think when you go to college you learn how to build furniture. Because one of the things that I did do once I finished studying for and taking the MCATs, I had a lot of extra time around that I didn't realize I had, and I found my way to the wood shop and I ended up building some of the pieces of furniture that are in our house right now.
LJR: Oh my gosh.
And I do a construction and a lot of that came from my experience at Dartmouth, which I don't think is the experience a lot of people expect to have or end up having, but is something that's continued to follow me. And I think that's, yeah, just a really interesting way of kind of dabbling in a lot of different things. While I started thinking I was going to be a doctor and left thinking I was going to be a doctor and turning into a doctor along the way…Yeah, I'd studied abroad in Italy for a term and I was on the ski patrol. I rowed my freshman year and part of my sophomore year and had to quit because of injuries. Did a lot of different things and I met a lot of really interesting people and I think that it was really what made my experience at Dartmouth what it was.
LJR: That is a lot. And I think you lived out some of all of our dreams. Like you see those people in the wood shop and you think, When am I gonna have time? If only I knew that the answer was study for the MCAT all the time. No. That wouldn't have worked out for me. Anyway…So you did do the MCAT and as we were leaving, you knew that your path was gonna take you where?
KJ: So I really thought I wanted to do medicine. I had been an EMT in high school and really enjoyed that, felt that I got calm when everybody else got really stressed out and thought that that would probably lead me into emergency medicine since that was similar to what I'd been doing. Just the helping field, I think in general. Nobody in my family's in medicine, but everybody is teachers. So doing some of that caring and teaching was where I thought I would go. And so I did. I ended up at the University of Vermont for medical school. And that was a perfect fit for me. I, you know, we graduated with a time where, Getting into medical school was not a very common thing. The numbers were pretty bad. And I ended up at Vermont after having grown up there, and I remember really distinctly part way through my first year, the Dean sat down with each of us and said, “On your application, you said you did these things outside of school and learning. Do you still do them? And if you don't, how can I support you doing them?” And to me, that was when I knew I’d totally fallen into the right medical school for me, trying to find that right balance between school and learning and being driven and doing other stuff, too.
LJR: And that was possible? They made that possible?
KJ: Totally. Yeah. It was fantastic. I learned a sail in medical school in Burlington. You could basically drive right down, down to the waterfront and hop on a sailboat. And so I spent a lot of time in class in the morning and in the afternoon would be at the sailing center out on the lake for a little bit of peace and quiet before I got down to more of the studying. And it was a great way of finding that balance. Skiing in the winter. Sailing the summer and, and trying new things.
LJR: Unbelievable. I have now talked to enough of our classmates who pursued medicine to know that is both rare and probably came to a screeching halt when you did your next step of residency and things.
KJ: So yes and no. I ended up doing my residency in Rochester, New York. I looked at a bunch of programs and I know my mentor in medical school kind of laughed when he looked at my rank list for residency programs because I really wanted to continue to have that balance. And be able to do those things. And so when I was a res, I mean I certainly worked crazy hours and didn't have a lot of extra free time, but I really made it a priority. Just a couple of examples, I found some folks that did some woodworking and one of my colleagues, her husband, one of the family medicine residents and I found some old timber and we got a portable saw mill and we cleaned the wood and we built Adirondack chairs. So I took tennis lessons. I think it was great. I could be absolutely terrible at tennis and nothing bad happened. If I was really bad at your job, somebody could die if I hit the tennis ball into the court next to me. I just had to say sorry and moved on. And I think that was one thing that really helped me get through residency and continues to be a big support for me, is just finding something I can be absolutely terrible at. And it doesn't matter how bad I am because it really has absolutely no repercussions in my life and it balances out some of those high stress components of work or home to just stink it up.
LJR: Yeah. Okay. That is an amazing insight and I wonder…My guess is you had to have the foil of an experience that had to have you all in. You said earlier you're the kind of person who's not all in all the time. You're the A-minus, but you can't be A-minus in certain aspects of medicine. So is that something new that you came to? Needing this outlet of I gotta be bad someplace, or was that something that you brought? Your childhood, it sounds like that's new.
KJ: Yeah, I think I don't, I don't know that I recognized it until I was sort of in this really intense environment. Where not doing well had serious repercussions. Mm-hmm. You know, if I didn't get a hundred on the tests, you know, it's not the end of the world, but if I didn't do effective CPR, somebody died. And I think that kind of, I, you know, if you don't get the intubation on the first try with that brand new baby, like that may be…the result of that kid's life may depend on that. And so, having taken tennis lessons and being absolutely terrible at it was a real relief. It was just an opportunity to step away from that and not have the pressure to be perfect or great at all times and to just relish that.
LJR: Again, a different kind of balance.
KJ: Yeah, absolutely.
LJR: Yeah. Okay. So you just foreshadowed a little bit that you have been dealing with kids as you're part of, you know, figuring out that discernment process. When do you know what kind of medicine you want to practice, and how does that path go for you?
KJ: Yeah, I think, you know, part way through medical school, just dealing with a lot of adults they're really frustrating. I wanted to like my patients and I would find that I could be as logical as possible, I could give you all of the resources, and you still might not do it. And I found that so frustrating and I had a hard time really staying connected with my patients. But with my pediatric patients, they were either too young and it was their parents' responsibility to help them do that, or they were teenagers and teenagers are just crazy and they're allowed to make whatever choices they want. And we just say, Well, you're a teenager. And so I found that I just connected better with my pediatric patients. I enjoyed working with parents who really were—even if they weren't as engaged in their own health—they were really dedicated to being a good parent and helping their child have some of the same things they might not be able to give themselves. And so that was in combination I think with just being brought up by teachers and a family of teachers, there's a lot of education, not just for the patients, the kids themselves but for parents and, and how to help you do this job that definitely does not come with an owner's manual.
LJR: For sure. So your residency put you kind of squarely in that world and you then remain, okay, Rochester, you're a little farther afield, but when do you come back to Vermont?
KJ: So I stayed in the northeast really. I ended up choosing to, in Rochester, do a child advocacy route. So I did a little bit more work there on public speaking and learning a little bit more about the roles outside of direct patient care that pediatricians could have. I chose to do a fellowship in pediatric endocrinology, and so I went to Yale to do that and I was miserable. I did not like it at all. I didn't like living where, in an hour in any direction, I was in a major city. It felt very confined and I just missed doing all the stuff and being the expert in one particular field, I think became just another example of how I didn't wanna be the person holding the ball with three seconds left in the game I wanted somebody else to pass to. And I think that that was where I found myself, even though I was an endocrinology fellow, going to cardiology clinic and doing some of these other things that were unrelated to what the expectations were for my job. And so one of the hardest things I did was tell a bunch of people, I had a lot of respect for that I didn't wanna grow up to be like them [LJR: Oh] and to leave that program after a year of a three year program. And that was, that was really big. But I was a very unhappy person, and found that I wasn't doing those other things and I wasn't finding that I could do the things that made me, me. And so, yeah, I left and I took a primary care job in Vermont, which was a bit of an adventure. I bought a house, thought I had a job. Turns out I didn't have a job. So then I had a house and no job, but with some scrambling around made that work and was in Vermont for about five years in a really rural area. Had a really good experience with a community that was relatively similar to what I grew up with. Met my husband and decided I wanted have a family and the type of community I was in at that time, like people would just show up about my house. They'd say like, My kid's wheezing. He's in the truck. Will you come take a listen? And I just couldn't figure how I could make that work with the family that I was hoping to have. You know, people would know I played hockey on Sunday nights at eight o'clock and they'd show up at the rink and I'd walk into the rink and there'd be two or three people there wondering if I could look at their kids' ears. And so I just needed a little bit better separation. So my husband and I looked around the northeast. He's a teacher and so I found three jobs and then his job is to pick among the three. And that's how we landed here at Exeter on the Seacoast of New Hampshire where we've been for the last 14 years.
LJR: Excellent. Excellent. So Kristin, let's just go back a little bit if we could to that Yale experience. And I'm wondering, it seemed like there were a number of confounding issues that just made that not, it was not going to be the right fit. And I'm wondering, how you might weight the environment, that feeling claustrophobic and a little too urban and all of that, and the feeling that I don't wanna be penned in—claustrophobic in a different way—kind of to one specialty or not doing the kind of medicine that gives me the kind of balance that I want. Was that equal? Or so intertwined it's hard to find that…
KJ: Yeah, no, I think, you know, the community in southwestern Connecticut, it's really bizarre in comparison to any place I've lived before. There's a real variety that was really made much more apparent by doing endocrinology. So seeing patients with type one diabetes and type two diabetes with growth hormone deficiency. A ortion of my patients who are incredibly wealthy, who would be more than happy to drop a couple hundred thousand dollars in cash to make their kids an inch taller. And I had people who weren't sure how they could feed their kids other than off the dollar menu at one of the fast food restaurants. And that dichotomy was just really challenging. But I think that more than that, it was being that person that people felt connected to, that when you came in and you were worried about something or you needed to develop that relationship, that that relationship was a relatively small component of your medical life. It might be over just that one event. And as a primary care pediatrician, I get to see you for years. And we get to go through the good times and the bad times, and we get to talk about diaper rashes and potty training and periods and boyfriends and all sorts of crazy stuff over those 14 years that I've been here. And that's what I was missing. I was missing the education component of that, that continuity of relationship that just wasn't there as much in that specialty care that I was looking for and found in primary care.
LJR: Yeah. And maybe too much when they were landing on your doorstep and at your activities [KJ: Yes.] So when, so when you found this community that, you know, this seemed like the right fit, gave you the balance, what did life start looking like a few years in when you'd established these relationships and probably could have a better rhythm of life? What has, what has kept you vibrant and smiling the way you always do?
KJ: It's been really interesting. I think, you know, having been in one location for 14 years makes me feel really old. Especially seeing some of my patients who are really old. But I think that what it's done, I…We started when I first said hello to you this evening that I have this sense of imposter syndrome and I think I recognize that I just need to get over that because having been in this community now for as long as I have, I have a more important role to play than just being somebody's doctor. And that has showed up in a few different venues. That's come from families who have been working to push forward some legislation around mental health support and suicide prevention and have asked me to come testify in front of the legislature around that. That's come from sort of accidentally volunteering to work with the school district right before Covid started and becoming their physician who had to help them set some guidelines and follow that and speak on Zoom in front of like a lot of people and make some hard. And I think that that absolutely took me outta my comfort zone. I was super uncomfortable in all of those settings, but at the same time, I think I've realized that having been a pediatrician for almost 20 years, and from being in this community for as long as I have, that I also have the responsibility as a pediatrician, as a parent, as the spouse of a teacher in the school district to really help stand up for those kids and say, Hey, you know, this is how we're gonna help try to keep you safe in the midst of this pandemic of some virus that we don't understand. You know, we need to talk about suicide. We need to talk about depression and anxiety, and we need to talk about it in all of these settings. We need to know really important things about our body, and we need to talk about our sexual health and our decision making and our independence and our ability to be a teenager who can make some of their own decisions sometimes when that's the right thing for them. And so that has led me to do some things that are uncomfortable for me, and I'm glad I've done them. But I'm also really glad that I'm no longer the consulting physician for our school district.
LJR: I bet. I bet.
KJ: But I think that's probably the bigger thing is to say, Hey, you know, those are some really important things that come with this job. And I think reflects back to maybe why my residency in Rochester was so helpful for me, cuz it did say, Hey, this is not just about taking care of a physical child, but for advocating for children and being a bigger part of that.
LJR: And you mentioned your own children a little bit earlier. They are getting to that sweet spot. Adolescence, teen period of life, which I'm sure makes them really excited to have you as an expert of all these other things that are going on in their lives and bodies. So how has that transition been from pediatrician and carer of others to carer of your own?
KJ: It's been really interesting. Until I had kids, I don't know that I thought it was as important in my job as it is, and I was really worried as my kids got to these ages where I talked to their friends about puberty and I know who's had their period and who hasn't and my kids don't. I really thought my kids would be upset about this, and they actually are more happy about my job now than ever before. They used to hate me having a job. All their friends had stay at home moms and I was the weird one who worked. Then they thought I should work for Dunkin’ Donuts because they thought they'd get free. Then they thought it would be better if I was in charge of ketchup cuz my sister works for Heinz Kraft and is in charge of ketchup. And that sounded better to them. And now we've moved on to actually mom being a pediatrician is not a disaster. And yeah, I'm a little surprised for the conversations that I've had with them and with their friends that they're not more horrified by the fact that I do this. But my style in the office is super candid, and that's with my…that's my relationship with our kids around some of these issues. And that's my relationship with our peers. And I think that I think, and I hope that that continues to be what makes this work okay. In a still relatively small community. I just, I joke all the time. I have the best job in the world. I get to say all the things the eight year old boys get in trouble for saying every day. And I have basketball hoops in the back of my exam room door, so I play basketball with my patients every day. And I don't think there are a lot of doctors out there who can say they get to do that either. And so just by being really candid and being really open, my kids know a lot more about their bodies than most kids do. But they also know not to, they know, you know, I know you can't tell me if you saw my friend, but they told me they saw you. Sometimes, you know, when they're, they don't have social media accounts and they're like, I know it's probably because one of your patients had something terrible happen to them, but…and so, you know, there, there's some upsides and downsides, but overall it's going pretty well. And, but that was a big part of why I pulled back from the role I had with the school district was that my daughter was heading into middle school. And our middle school takes our very tiny elementary school and joins with five other towns and I really didn't want her to be the kid whose mom is the one that makes us all wear masks or tests and sent home, so…
LJR: Right. Exactly. So this I think is a time when I can say you've had this big run and you have had many different sides of you come out at different points and the woodworking side, all of that, you know, unexpected things. But when you think back to the 20 year old Kristen who kind of knew what her path was gonna look like professionally, you knew you had a love of the northeast, maybe that was probably a constant. And someone had told her, I can tell you exactly what your future looks like 25 years from now and this is it. What would she have said?
KJ: Ah. I think I was so worried it wouldn't work out and I think it, knowing that it turns out okay would be so helpful. Because as much as I had an idea of what I thought would be helpful and what I wanted to get out of that, I felt like at every turn, maybe this isn't gonna work out and I think, just being able to step back and say, “Hey, you know, you got this” would be really helpful. And I think, as I mentioned to you earlier, listening to this podcast has been really helpful and I've shared it with a lot of my patients to say, listen to some other people. This is a really tricky time, particularly for our adolescents, our young adults who are coming into the adult world with a lot more chaos than we had. They are adulting and having political strife within our country. We're having political strife across the world. They're having financial crises, we're having health crises, and there's a lot going on, and I think that as a 20 year old, it was like one thing at a time and I still thought it was really big. And so I think just being able to step back and say like, it's gonna be okay, you got this. Whether that's because what your plan was, Kristen at 20 is gonna work out to some degree, one way or another, or listening to everybody else and saying, Hey, it may not be what you thought it was going to be, but it's gonna be okay and frankly it's gonna be great. But I think that would be such an important message to be able to hear and, and believe.
LJR: Yeah, well, I think you are spreading that message and whether it's through suggesting a really good podcast for people to listen to, or just by virtue of letting them know that you respect them and are candid enough to tell them kind of what to look out for and what the world is like and where they fit into it. Those are really important things, too. So we thank you for that work for the next generation and we're so glad that you found a community that you can feel free to do that in and still have a great life around that as well. So thanks so much for sharing this, Kristen. Absolutely.
LJR: That was Kristen Calcagni Johnson who, as a friend once described her, is a woodworker, sews clothes, is a big reader, speaks Italian, and by the way, is a pediatrician. She practices with Core Physicians, affiliated with Exeter Hospital, in the New Hampshire Seacoast Region. She lives with her husband and two children there, where she was awarded the 2021 Exeter Chamber of Commerce Citizen of the Year award, chiefly for her work on the front line of the pandemic, as a critical partner to the community and school district on health and safety issues. Had there been a furniture-building category, we are sure she would have come out on top of that one, too.
If we could give out good citizens awards to our best listeners, we’d have to give out hundreds per week. We are so thrilled you continue to listen and let us know that our guests’ stories continue to resonate with you. If you need to catch up or want to revisit a tale or two, visit RoadsTakenShow.com where you can find our hundred plus episode archive. And tune in each week wherever you get your podcasts to hear a new guest and me, Leslie Jennings Rowley, on Roads Taken.