History major John Peoples had never considered himself a science person, let alone one to follow the pre-med track. But after an off-term spent caring for his ailing grandfather and hearing his grandmother's stories about other caregivers in their family, he began to reconsider. Find out how listening to people’s stories and coming to understand people's needs can sometimes lead to your calling.
Guest John Peoples had never considered himself a science person, let alone one to follow the pre-med track. He had only a sense that he was independent and wanted to help people. After an off-term spent caring for his ailing grandfather and hearing his grandmother's stories about caregivers in their family, he began to reconsider a career in medicine. He returned to school and fleshed out his history major with pre-med requirements. With not quite enough time to finish and take the MCAT before graduation, he enrolled in a post-baccalaureate pre-med program in New York.
Not sure he wanted to commit to the long hours of the medical school and ultimate doctor life right away, he found a way to use both his growing medical interests and his Spanish language in a clinic in California. Ultimately, he set off to med school, perhaps later than most. And he found ways to incorporate his desire to work more directly with individuals, families, and communities in need of care.
In this episode, find out from John how listening to people’s stories and coming to understand people's needs can sometimes lead to your calling…on Roads Taken with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode’s Guest
John Peoples is a bi-lingual board certified pediatrician who practices at Central Oregon Pediatric Associates in Bend, Oregon. When he is not working with families to build a strong foundation for children’s educational, developmental, and mental health needs, he is likely off hiking with his wife, son, and crazy dogs.
Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com
Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings Rowley
Music: Brian Burrows
Email the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com
John Peoples: I'd never sort of thought of myself as somebody of the sciences, but as I sort of practically looked at where I wanted to go next, I really started to consider medicine as a way to work with people, which I really enjoy doing, but also do so in a way that's really tactile and gives back, and also gives some job satisfaction, et cetera.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: History major John Peoples had never considered himself a science person, let alone one to follow the pre-med track. But after an off-term spent caring for his ailing grandfather and hearing his grandmother's stories about other caregivers in their family, he began to reconsider. Find out how listening to people’s stories and coming to understand people's needs can sometimes lead to your calling ..on today's Roads Taken with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
Today I'm here with John Peoples and we're going to talk about shifts that put us in contact with other sides of ourselves that even we might not have known were there and what that means for the ages. So John, thanks so much for being here.
JP: It's a pleasure to be here.
LJR: So we start this the same way every time with two questions, and they are these: when we were in college, who were you and when we were getting ready to leave, who did you think you would become?
JP: That's a great question. You know, I think when I was in college, I saw myself as somebody who is pretty independent with a fairly liberal view of the world and a goal to help out. I can't say that I knew who exactly I wanted to become when I left college. I wish I could say that I’d had that intentional of an idea of where things were gonna go in 1996. But I would say that I was probably more in a place where I was letting the road take me a little bit at that point.
LJR: Right. So what were the things that kept you busy in the four years and what did that say about who you either had been or were becoming in that period of time?
JP: Yeah, I mean, I think the, where I spent most of my time was rowing on the lightweight crew team, which was an amazing group of people and a great experience. And then also helped found Amarna and being part of a really neat group of people who sort of helped define that house. Really I think I probably put more work on that initially in the founding and as the house grew, it developed its own personality with a really, really interesting group of people and sort of differing culture. And it's been really incredible to watch Amarna over the years because Amarna was sort of founded with the tenants that, you know, anybody could join that wanted, it would be co-ed and everybody would be celebrated who joined. And the interesting thing is, because of that, the culture of Amarna kind of shifts with each generations. So as I've sort of reconnected every sort of five years and tried to kind of understand where the house is at, it's been really interesting to see as it, as it sort of ebbs and flows and, and takes on a whole new personality. But we, we were all very excited when we went back to the house this year to see that it's on the map and it's still there. And, you know, 25 years later still going strong. So…
LJR: Yeah. And not everything is, we found, so it's good. Yeah. So kind of building something that was inclusive, that was important to you, and you said that you had this general sense that you wanted to help out, but the end game and the way you've predominantly done that in your life was not really, I don't think, in the cards for you as a history major.
JP: No.
LJR: Right. So were you think, Yeah. So right now as a 20 year old, middle of college history major, looking to a point where college was going to end, what did you think the next step was gonna be and how did you actually get there to that first step off?
JP: Yeah. You know, I think the D plan really helped me. I mean, I think it's one of those things. I talk with interview candidates about is I think it's something that truly makes Dartmouth unique. And after sophomore summer, I think I found myself a bit adrift in trying to think about what I wanted to do. And, and I ended up taking off six months and going out to Pasadena to stay with my grandparents. And my granddaddy was in his mid eighties and, and pretty sick. And he was a real big guy. My grandma was about five feet tall and just having some trouble taking care of him. And so as he worked through an illness, I lived with them and just worked at a coffee shop at night and kind of helped take care of 'em once I got home from work and then in the day and spent a lot of time with my grandma. My grandma's a real neat woman. She was a social worker for the city of Pasadena for about 20 years an got her social work degree in the thirties. And her dad was a doctor in Oklahoma in the 19, early 1900s out in the Cherokee reservation. So she talked to me a lot about sort of social work and medicine and going out on house calls with her father. I'd never sort of thought of myself as somebody of the sciences, but as I sort of practically looked at where I wanted to go next, I really started to consider medicine as a way to, you know, work with people, which I really enjoy doing, but also do so in a way that's really tactile and gives back and also gives some job satisfaction, et cetera.
So at that point, I came back, started into my pre-meds, but I still had to kind of finish out my major. I hadn't kind of planned enough for that. And so had to, once I finished school, do a post baccalaureate program, which I was able to do after college.
LJR: So it was pretty soon after that experience living with your grandparents. But I'm really interested in, as a young person, how one decides they're gonna become a caregiver. Was that something that like someone flagged as a need? Or you're like, Hey, I have this period of time. Pasadena is no Hanover, you know, what was the, what was the spark for that, for you to get that opportunity?
JP: You know, I think it was fortuitous more than anything. You know, I think my family said, Hey, you've got some time off and why don't you go help out your grandparents? And I'd always been really close with my grandparents and I think it grew more organically than that, quite honestly, Leslie. And in that when I was there, it really gave me some time to reflect and I enjoy the work. You know, I, I found that like just this sort of manual labor of taking care of somebody who's really sick, I actually found satisfying and I enjoy the way you get to know people and the ability to try and give them dignity while, you know, they may be in a place where they feel that is maybe less dignified. And so I just really enjoyed the process of doing that and so that kind of helped propel me forward. Now it took me a while to get to medical school even so, but that's really where I got started.
LJR: Right. So you did the post-bac.
JP: And then I did the post-bac at Columbia in New York and that was great. And you know, it was a good pre-medical experience, great classes, had a lot of fun in New York. Made some great friends. And actually it was a sort of awesome Dartmouth experience cause connected with a lot of people from Dartmouth that I was friends with, but not, you know, best friends with and created a great crew of folks that I was able to connect with there. But ultimately decided I wanted to take a little more time before going into medicine. I think I was intimidated, probably rightfully so, quite honestly, by the hours. I don't know that I saw myself as somebody that was gonna be doing 60 to 80 hour weeks for the rest of my life.
And so I moved to San Diego at that point and got a job running a developmental screening program for foster kids at Children's Hospital San Diego. And that was a really incredible experience sort of in terms of learning and highlighting things I really wanted to do in the future.
LJR: And so you knew pretty at an early stage in the medical career that you wanted to deal with kids?
JP: Not really. You know, when I got to San Diego, I knew I wanted to do something medical, but I cast a really wide net, and that is really fortunate. I wanted to speak Spanish. I speak Spanish and I cast a wide net. And that's where I landed honestly. And I think, like so many things, fortune has really helped me along. But it was a job I truly loved. It was set up in a foster care shelter, and it was a unique place because they had set up this large foster care shelter in San Diego to help with kids who are in transition. So, you know, oftentimes you go through the legal process, either moving towards reunification or permanent foster care. There can be, you know, a two or three week period where you're sort of in limbo. And so as opposed to jumping from home to home, or place to place, they would have kids be in the shelter. And so, but there's a really high rated developmental delay for kids in foster care, for obvious reasons, neglect, abuse. And so what we would do is we, this program was set up, we would basically screen them all and then if there were developmental delays, move them into services at an age when services are really important. And it was a great job. I loved it because it was about 50% clinical. 50% of the time I was just on the floor playing with kids. And cuz any sort of developmental testing with kids, as you probably know as a psychologist, is play based. So that was about 50% of my time and the other 50% was sort of, you know, running the program, advocacy in the community, working with a lot of other community partners. And so I really love that balance. And I think the other interesting thing is I was one of the few males that would kind of go into those cottages where the kids were. And so A, it took some time to build trust because some of the kids had males in their lives that were maybe not necessarily as trustworthy. But then once they connected with me as great, because I kind of became this sort of like I don't wanna say father figure, cuz that was, it was really, you know, over, you know, two, three, you know, some kids, you know, four to four to eight week period that they would be there. But certainly somebody they would connect with as a male figure once they, you know, I gained their trust. And so it was a really incredible experience and, and that's what really got me connected with the idea of working for kids. The people that sort of help oversee the program with pediatricians. And I love their balance. I love their vision, I love their role in the community. And so that's when I think I first probably started saying, Okay, you know, it's honestly just more fun working with kids. You know, I mean really, like you have to be a kid at heart. Like if you walk into a room and you're grumpy, that kiddo is just gonna rebel right away. And, and so you have to find a way, no matter how your day starts off, or what's going on in your personal life, to try and leave it at the door as best you can and have some fun. That's a, that's a lucky thing to be able to do, you know, 15, 20 times a day.
LJR: Yeah. And I just heard recently actually, someone say that being a doctor to adults is so much more fraught because kids really do not want to go to the doctor. And so there is no pretense of if they're there, like is it because they want a prescription written or a work out, you know, a note out from work notice or like they're hypochondriac, like, no, they're sick because otherwise they would not be allow…or allow you to drag them to a doctor. And I think that's a funny thing, but I'm sure that it is more fun. So you had that experience at what stage of your training and trajectory?
JP: Well, so I was, this was, I hadn't done, I'd finished my pre-meds and, and so then at that point I just had my, my bachelor's degree. And, and so I stayed there. You know, I was about 24 and I stayed in that job for about four and a half years. I loved that job. [LJR: Wow.] And really, I loved it so much that I debated was it worth going to medical school until I just got to the point where it just felt like the people that were really ma able to make change in the community. We're the pediatricians. And I, I just felt like to move to that step was gonna be important although I had to leave a program that I was really growing in personally, had great leadership that were helping to mentor me, and was just one of those great fits. Once you've been in a job you love, you kind of realize if you leave that and end up somewhere, maybe you don't love, you know, what a unicorn that is, Right? To be in a place where you truly love your work. And, and that was one of those places where, where I truly loved my work.
LJR: Oh, well that is great. And then even better when you recognize, okay, I have to leave that cuz I wanna do something, you know, I wanna continue doing this. And maybe in a like, slightly different way, but you're now 28, 29 entering med school.
JP: Mm-hmm.
LJR: And that's a little atypical.
JP: Yeah. It was a little bit. I don't think it's as atypical as it used to be, but there was, you know, in my, I went to med school at Cornell. And I think that the, I mean, there were a fair amount of older students at Cornell, but then, and then there were a bunch that were like right outta college. But yeah. And then there was like a couple that were in their forties, which I was like, Wow, that's crazy.
LJR: Right, right. Well, so at, but at that point, you, I mean, you had already said at least some vision of what you thought medic medicine could look like was intimidating because of the hours. Then you're in…you’re almost 30. It's real, like medical school is no joke. Right. So were you prepared for that? And you're like, Okay, I'm just gonna put the time in. Was it harder than you thought? Less hard than you thought? And what else were you balancing in your life at that point?
JP: Yeah, you know, I think medical school was sort of different than I thought, quite honestly. I don't know if it was harder than I thought. It's so hard in medicine to look back at medical school and say it was difficult because residency is so insane that like medical school just seems like a walk in the park at that point. And I think they do that purposefully. They sort of ratchet up your training throughout. But no, medical school is a really amazing experience. I mean, you're first of all with this just incredible group of people who just, all of them are sort of inspiring things they've done or they will do and you're just exposed to this, you know, amazing world. I think that being a history major and having mainly done my pre-meds with maybe a couple extra science classes and then having taken four years off before going to medical school, the science piece was a bigger hill decline for me when I got to school, and so I think I probably had to work a little bit harder. But no, it was a great experience. I think the biggest challenge for me when I got to medical school was, you know, I had a successful career building in San Diego, and then I was like the bottom of the totem pole in medical school. You know, it's just, that's sort of rebellious, independent part of me, like, you know. At times that was challenging, but overall it was a great experience, and going to medical school in New York City was exactly what I wanted. There was a reason I did that because I knew, the experience of being able to see so many different things during the clinical rotations would be just a sort of unforgettable experience. And it was, you know, I mean one week I was doing, you know, sort of general surgery and trauma up in the Bronx and the next week I was doing, you know, cardiothoracic surgery at New York Presbyterian Hospital and that was incredible just to see.
LJR: But all the while, pretty much certainly we're gonna stick with pediatrics.
JP: Yeah, I, I kind of, I, I had a bead on pediatrics. I think, you know, as somebody said in medical school, most people differentiate in medicine based on the personalities of, of people that go into their profession. But I think for me, more than anything, I knew really when I got there that I wanted to go in pediatrics. Cause I really, I really enjoy working with kids and so I wanted to keep that going.
LJR: Which you did. And at some stage met a wife?
JP: Yes.
LJR: And had your own kid?
JP: Yeah.
LJR: Okay. And so how did that work? And I know medicine kind of takes you places that you don't anticipate going, so talk us through that.
JP: Yeah, it's a, a great question. Yeah. You know, I met my wife when I was in med school. She was practicing law in New York at the time, and we were married my fourth year of medical school. I don't really know many people in medicine, or at least I didn't at the time. And none of my family members are in medicine or anything. So..we..and nor did Mandy. My wife was a theater major and you know, both of us kind of came from a liberal arts background so. Residency was a surprise for us in our first year of marriage. And I think certainly challenging. I don't think we realized what working a hundred hours a week does, you know, is you're trying to build something together. But, so that, that required some work, but I think ultimately made us much stronger going in. Just had I had some preface for like, Okay, just be ready. Like this is gonna be challenging, you know, when you come home after a 30 hour shift to be present.
LJR: Yeah. But you were able to do residency there?
JP: No, I did residency…Yeah. We moved back to, I did residency at Stanford and I knew kind of when I went into medicine, I wanted to do sort of more public health-minded work, and so they have programs now that have sort of community health elements to them. And so both for internal medicine and for pediatrics, and so I did what's called the Stanford Advocacy Track. You know, so one of my colleagues that was in the advocacy track is sort of an amazing sort of legislative advocacy mind. And so she did this, you know, really interesting legislative advocacy around CHIP, the children's health insurance program. I've always been more sort of grassroots, I think, going back to my work in San Diego. I've always enjoyed sort of programs that build from the ground up and then you kind of see what the needs are locally and work in that manner. And so when I was in residency, I built a program working with the migrant…adolescent, migrant farm workers down in Gilroy, which is about 45 minutes to an hour from Stanford. And that was really an incredible experience. We started by doing focus groups with these kids just to understand what their healthcare needs and existence was. And then also built out healthcare kits that we would take out to their communities. So they had sort of healthcare access kits. It was a very interesting time, cause this was back in the sort of end of the Bush Junior administration, so this is when like ICE raids were going on in clinics and things like that. So building trust took about a year and a half to build trust in that community. And then it was, you know, once it was there, it was there. And that was really a cool experience. The other thing that was really interesting is I don't think I understood what these migrant communities looked like until I got out there and you know, it was a 45 minute drive from Silicon Valley right where Stanford is, which is, you know, sort of as nice a place to live as there is. And it really felt when I'd land where these kids lived and these sort of, I want to call 'em hut almost, on the side of the fields like I had gone to another country. It was really the level of poverty. And the other interesting thing is we do these focus groups. You know, we bring dinner out, do the focus groups, and they would have been working like a 14 hour day in the fields. They'd get showered up. And they would, you know, sit across from you. It would be this 14-, 15-year-old kid that looked like any 14-, 15-year-old kid. He was ready to take your daughter out on a date, you know, all cleaned up and yet they have this incredible story of, you know, how they came across the border by themselves. You know, how they're doing this work now for their family and sending money back home and all grown up at a young age. But it was, it was really an incredible experience. And by the end, you know, I would go out, we'd do the focus groups, then you'd have kind of everybody from the whole migrant community come out for dinner and, you know, and then everybody's asking you medical questions and, and it was really, it was really a cool experience.
LJR: Yeah. Again, though, putting your heart and soul into places and at some point knowing you have to leave, right?
JP: Yeah.
LJR: That's hard.
JP: Yeah. It was a, it was a challenging transition and, and you know, I think that there are certain inflection points where the decisions you make are really important, and that was one of those points. You know, coming outta residency, I did a chief residency year, which gave me one more year at Stanford. And then that idea of what do I do next? You know, and it was sort of, you know, a lot of people were sort of saying, Hey, you should do the academic pediatrics thing or do these fellowships where you're sort of studying populations in need. But I really, again, being sort of a grassroots person, I ultimately, as I got very pragmatic about it, thought, you know, general pediatrics is really gonna be the best way to be on the ground working with people. And I think it has. And so that's how we kind of made the next step up here.
LJR: Up here, being [JP: Bend] Oregon and kind of central and so what kind of communities do you interact with now in Oregon? Similarities, differences?
JP: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, Central Oregon is a little different. It's not as diverse as anywhere I've ever really lived before. But I'd say our main ethnic population is Latino. And so I do work with the Latino population a fair amount. So that's been the main population I've worked with up here, which has been amazing cuz working with that population in a medical setting is just a joy. And it's also, you know, I think the needs are high because they're constantly in need of services and not getting equal access to care that the Caucasian population is, quite honestly. So that's been really cool. And then, you know, the balance on my practice is gonna be, there's a sort of, you know, rancher population up here as well, and so that's been interesting as well. It's just kind of a, you know, all the, the sort of regular people that live in Bend and Redmond, Oregon and, and the outlying areas in central Oregon. So, historically working with the ranching population's been great. I think it's alittle bit more challenging since Covid started, because I think that some of the political messages that got taken up, especially around covid and vaccines got taken up by that community, whereas previously that community was like, Oh yeah, you know, we want it all because, you know, they do so much work with animals and things that they, understand the need for vaccination and things like that. But it's been a little more challenging as things have politicized. So I, I feel that the politicization in the office, in the medical office, at least over the last sort of three to six months has quieted down a little bit, which has been nice.
LJR: Yeah. So John, I think when actually you and I met the first, even before classes started, we were on our freshman trip together. And if you think back to that John, he knew he wanted to help people, what would he say if he were to hear where you have been and where you are now. What do you think his reaction would be?
JP: I think he'd probably be surprised, quite honestly. I think that I, I really did not envision myself going into medicine in any way, shape or form when I got to college. And so I think he'd be surprised. But I think that I really consider myself very lucky, you know. I'm in a job where, you know, 15, 20 times a day people say thank you when they leave the room, you know, or when I leave the room and kids tell me crazy things every day and you know, my job is literally to talk to kids and have families tell me a history. And in many ways, you know, what we do, especially when kids are sick, is you, or people are sick, we get history, right? And, ultimately, like kids and parents are gonna tell you what's going on if you listen long enough. And so I think that sort of historian piece of it is undervalued and is so rich to be able to be a part of people's lives like that. So I hope that my 18 year old self would say I'm very fortunate, but I, I feel like, honestly, I feel very lucky to have landed where I am because I don't think oftentimes the choices I made were as intentional as, as they might have been, but ultimately led me to a great place.
JP: Well, you may feel lucky, but I'm certain that the communities that you've helped serve have been lucky for your presence in them, and we really appreciate that service and also for sharing your twists and turns to get there on this show. So thank you so much for being with us today, John.
JP: Thanks for having me.
LJR: That was John Peoples, who's a bilingual, board certified pediatrician who practices at Central Oregon Pediatric Associates in Bend, Oregon. When he is not working with families to build a strong foundation for children's educational, developmental, and mental health needs, he's likely off hiking with his wife's son and crazy dogs.
When we are not lining up other great interviews for our listeners, we're looking through feedback we receive in reviews on various platforms as well as via email at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com or the contact us page on RoadsTakenShow.com. Please feel free to drop us a line in any of those ways. We would love to hear from you about what your big takeaways have been or what you'd like to hear next time with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley, on Roads Taken.