Although it wasn't completely evident from the start, Morgan Flatley was made for marketing. She loves being around people and being part of a team that ideates creative solutions. So brand by brand, as opportunities arose, she continued to surround herself with good people, try to do hard things, and have fun doing it. Find out how listening deeply and knowing who you are are key for people as well as brands.
Guest Morgan Flatley had a job in non-profit consulting after college, but felt motivated more by seeing the female owner run her own small business than the content itself. After traveling a bit and taking personality inventories from her parents’ home, she realized that she loves being around people and ideating creative solutions. This led her to the advertising world, business school, and a career in marketing.
Over the years she has had opportunities to work on some of the world’s most iconic brands. After a decade in product management for Gatorade, she was tapped to head up marketing for McDonald’s USA and, more recently, to become CMO for the global organization, all while being a mom to three small children. Brand after brand, she continued to surround herself with good people, try to do hard things, and have fun doing it. But things get a little crazy when the brand you serve is known by nearly everyone on the planet.
In this episode, find out from Morgan how listening deeply and knowing who you are are key for people as well as brands…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode's Guest
Morgan Flatley has had a career in brand management and marketing that has included some of the world’s most iconic brands. After more than a decade spent at PepsiCo, working for ten years on Gatorade, she was named chief marketing and digital customer experience officer for McDonald’s USA and just recently promoted to global chief marketing officer. Morgan was named by Forbes to its World’s Most Influential CMOs list for two consecutive years, rising to #6 worldwide in 2021, and has also been recognized with Adweek’s most prestigious "Brand Genius" honor. She lives in Chicago with her husband and three children.
Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings Rowley
Music: Brian Burrows
Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com
Email the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com
Morgan Flatley: How are you guided by your customer when you're like one of the most democratic brands in the world? That's been really interesting in how we think about our customer and you've got to get out of this like corporate ivory tower when you think about who we serve day in and day out and stay relevant to them.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: Although it wasn't completely evident from the start, Morgan Flatley was made for marketing. She loves being around people and being part of a team that ideates creative solutions. So brand by brand as opportunities arose, she continued to surround herself with good people, try to do hard things and have fun doing it. Find out how listening deeply and knowing who you are, are key for people as well as brands on today's Roads Taken with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
I'm here today with Morgan Flatley and we're going to talk about knowing what people need and knowing what you stand for. So I think that's going to be it, but we'll see. Morgan, thank you so much for being part of this.
MF: Well, thank you for having me, Leslie. It's great to be here. And I'm curious to see where we go with it.
LJR: So exactly. Well, it does tend to meander down our guests’ roads, but I always start in the same place with two questions and they are these: When we were in college, who were you? And when we were getting ready to leave, who did you think you would become?
MF: Oh, gosh. So when I was in college, it feels like a long, long time ago. It is a long time ago for all of us. When I was in college, I was, I think, really naive about myself and the world. I like to think I was, I was really like bright-eyed and excited coming to Dartmouth. I think I had spent so much time thinking about how to get to college that once I got there, it was like the world was all there at Dartmouth. And I certainly think, I thought I knew who I was, but now as I look back, I really had no idea, you know, who I was. A decent student, probably not very disciplined. I was an athlete when I came, though certainly not when I left, you know. Someone who really loved having great friends. And that was a big piece of my Dartmouth story.
And then your second question, who, who was I when I left, when I left,
LJR: It’s actually the prospective: Who did you think you would become when you were 20-whatever.
MF: Oh, 21 or 22…I mean, I remember so vividly the week of graduation, even graduation, like actually being panicked and totally lost. I mean, I had no idea who I was going to become. In fact, I felt a little bit like the world was ending. Like this rug had been ripped out from underneath me because so much of it was focused on college. And then I didn't know what I wanted next. And I certainly had a job, but I did not find, you know, that I had sorted out who I was going to become or what I wanted as I left Dartmouth.
LJR: That was palpable. You knew that? You knew you hadn’t…
MF: Oh my gosh like pit in my stomach, where am I going? What has happened? And just this big uncertainty of the big wide world out there would hold for me. I certainly didn't know.
LJR: But what was it, the first job? And is it that you already knew it didn't feel right that that pit of the stomach thing was happening? Or tell me what that next step was going to be for you?
MF: I thought I was interested in business, certainly. Where I've gone. Sometimes I still have that pit in my stomach. Like, what is it I want to do when I grow up? So…
LJR: Welcome to the club on that.
MF: Yeah. But I've had an interest in business, but I definitely was not interested in what I saw at Dartmouth around business, which at least then was predominantly banking and consulting. And I kinda knew that wasn't my thing. Maybe cause I dropped out of my first math class at Dartmouth. Like I knew that wasn't my thing. And I got a job that was like through campus recruiting, posted like no one recruited, they didn't recruit on campus, but I got the job, which was doing nonprofit consulting. So it was consulting, but it was with nonprofits. And what I would say is. It certainly wasn't my calling, but it was a really interesting experience.
Like I think I got a bunch of really interesting experiences so far in my life that like helped me continue to shape and like nudge myself towards what's next. And it was a great experience. It was a very small women-run business. So there was a woman, Toni Goodale, who had founded the firm. There were four of us who worked there and it was all about partnering with nonprofits around their development strategies. And I did it for two years. So it was my first step. But, I'd say, and I've said this before, like those two years were much more about like how to be a grownup, like, you know, living in New York City, paying my bills, like getting to work every, I mean, it was really about entering into this adult world outside of the cocoon of Hanover I think.
LJR: Right, right. But that still wasn't business per se. So what, how was it that you were able to make that leap?
MF: I mean what I loved from that experience was as much as it was nonprofit consulting, it was actually seeing this really impressive female entrepreneur, so Toni, who I worked for was just this incredible woman who, you know, had built her own business. So I saw a woman who had built her own business and really established herself in New York City, less of the skills around nonprofit consulting. And then I actually packed up my bag and went and traveled for a little bit and then moved back with my parents. Like, so, you know, two and a half years out of college, I was like back in my parents' house, actually trying to figure out what to do with myself.
And it was really interesting. I was thinking about it today. I did all these like tests, like all the, like, you know, personality tests, [LJR: Myers-Briggs…] yeah, like what you're good at and what you like. And, and from there I went into advertising. So that was like, when I really started on, I'd say that this, whatever this is, but like this career journey.
LJR: So it was out of a book or a scan-tron or something told you that.
MF: Totally. Like I remember this one, cause it was this whole battery of tests. I mean, it was I'm sure very dated. And one of the things it told me was that, I mean, one, I really like being around people. So this like human element, which has been a theme to my career journey.
And then it was this thing called like idea-foria or something like it was all about like being sparked by ideas. And I think that's a little bit of, yeah. What I've gravitated towards throughout my work is like creativity and ideas and people and bringing that whole mess together to do something. So I went into advertising then, like, you know, which was again, like kind of the beginning of, of this journey.
LJR: Yeah. And on the agency side.
MF: Yes. So I worked at a big agency in New York called Saatchi and Saatchi, and I worked on big clients like Procter and Gamble and J & J. And I did that for a couple years and I was account management. So I, you know, like shuffled between the creative teams and like the planning teams and the client, and was kind of the shuffler between all of that to keep moving things forward.
And I remember this like distinct moment when I was sitting on a call with the assistant brand manager at Proctor and gamble, and he was talking about this new product that they were launching and the CapEx that went along with it and depreciation and the way they were thinking about pricing the product. And I was like, oh my God, I don't know anything. I don't know anything that he's talking about. And like that's business. I just realized how, I mean, I was a history major at Dartmouth, I just realized, I didn't know a lot.
LJR: So I was just actually speaking with Shawn Snipes Gasparini, who is in marketing. And she started on the agency side and she said, you could not have put an opportunity in front of me, fast enough to get on the client side. I just wanted to be a client. But you just recognized you didn't even know enough to be a client. So, what was your, what was your transformation then—a little foreshadowing here—you actually are on the client side and have been for a long time. So what was that transition like? And what did you do with that realization? Because being the type that many of us are, we want to fill in those gaps that we don't know. So what did you do?
MF: So. I, well, I went to business school. That's when I realized I actually, I actually loved working on the agency side. So I loved the creativity of it. And you know, what I didn't like, which might've been, why Shawn wanted out, I hated that I always was delegating the decisions to someone else. But I love the creativity of it. So I remember again, sitting on this call. CapEx, like what is CapEx mean? And like depreciation what's that? And so I then decided I was going to look at going to business school. So I did, I ended up going to business school probably a year later.
I did spend time talking to some of my clients and like understanding and I'm really curious and I love to learn. And so I was excited to kind of get back to learning again and maybe get back to like the safety of that classroom and campus and everything that Dartmouth had provided.
LJR: Exactly. And so many people go in knowing, oh, I need to round out who I am. Half of the people I talked to have a distinct idea of what they're going to do when they get out and half are like, I don't know, maybe this will open new doors for me. You're a little bit of both here. So talk to me about what happened through that process and then how it put you on the real career path that you've been on.
MF: So I think I went in wanting to see if there were other things. I was like wanting to open my eyes to other aspects of business, learn more, and then figure out where to go. About, you know, halfway through business school I realized I really loved marketing. And it might've been because of my struggles in some of the classes, but I also just was always drawn towards the marketing cases. I was always drawn towards the marketing classes,
LJR: Rhe human side. The creativity.
MF: Exactly. I don't know why it was a surprise though. You have to go through those steps to figure it out. Yeah. I mean between my first and second year of business school, I interned at PepsiCo in marketing. So it was like a marketing summer intern. And then I went to PepsiCo after business school. So I must've kind of sorted that out, you know, halfway through my first year that that really was, you know, my calling at that point.
LJR: Yeah. Yeah. And you kind of did the whole global giant brand thing from a very various standpoints within PepsiCo. The longest, I think was Gatorade?
MF: Yes. Yeah. So I, I went to PepsiCo and. I kind of saw it as, like I thought I'd be there for a short time. You know, I, it was bad. I went back to New York, it was in New York. The job was in New York. It was a great way to kind of test out the brand side and Pepsi, I think, especially at that time, and even today, was doing a lot of like really creative marketing, I think, especially as I'm not the category leader, but the number two, I think they were doing fairly disruptive marketing. And then I quickly ended up moving to Chicago. So I met my husband at business school. We both decided to go to Chicago. I would say it was the first compromise of our marriage. I was in New York. He was in Minneapolis and we were like, Chicago is in-between. Neither of us were going to go to the other person's city.
And so I transferred with PepsiCo to Gatorade and that was what kept me at PepsiCo for so long. I was there for 13 plus years, 10 of them on Gatorade. And I just, like the brand really resonated with me. And I had this like great sense of purpose in the work I was doing. Cause it was sports and athletes and all-around kind of nutrition and some of the science behind sports performance.
And then it was at the time led by a bunch of women, which was super cool, too. There were kind of all these women in leadership positions at Gatorade. So I also had kind of a little comradery of women who were also moms and kind of juggling life and work and being kind of bad-ass as at what they were doing. And that really helped kind of guide me, I think, as a leader, which I'm still trying to stay focused on today.
LJR: Yeah. Well, it sounds like you, you learned a lot from them because you have been given increasingly large global now portfolio. [MF: Yeah.] And I know, just recently really, you've gotten another step in that to be leading basically the entire world. I don't think there's anyone in the world that hasn't heard of McDonald's [MF: Yes.] And really in this time where, you know, full digital transformation has taken place and there are so many issues and the role of a CMO, which you are, is so multifaceted and it's not just like knowing what customers need and telling them we do that, but really what the brand stands for. And that must be, it must have been tricky in the last couple of years. We can get into the specifics, we can get into the global. However you want to talk about the challenges that you're facing right now, whether it's management…I mean, I think we all think, oh, she's coming up with creative all day, but [MF: Yeah Unfortunately not anymore.] So talk about what your life's like...
MF: And yeah, so I, I left PepsiCo like a couple of years ago and I became the U.S. CMO at McDonald's. And then as you referenced just about, you know, a few months ago, I moved into this global CMO role and the U.S. CMO role was really fascinating because most of you know, Part of my time there was through the pandemic. And as you said, you know, leading the, so just for context, I think it's interesting. McDonald's in the U.S. is roughly 14,000 restaurants, serves 90% of the U.S. population annually, employ between corporate and our franchisees employees close to 700,000 people in the U.S. So it was a huge, huge change for me personally, to go from managing a really important brand, but part of a portfolio of brands and much smaller to kind of this huge, iconic business that actually touches all of these people every single day.
And then to do that during the pandemic was, I mean, it was incredible, both, you know, fear and panic for my people, like for my team, just like my direct team, for our franchisees, for, you know, our restaurant crew across the U.S. and just how to think about their safety and their lives, and just such appreciation and gratitude for people who are going into the restaurant every single day to keep our business running.
LJR: Which I would say any leader, your peers and divisions and, and you know, the other chiefs in that organization, I have to do those things, but you have to do those things, because it actually matters to us as consumers, how, how our companies are thinking about their people and safety and nutrition and all those things. So you get the internal and the external weight of that in a way that maybe your peers don't. [MF: Yeah.] So how did, how did you sleep? Did you sleep? No.
MF: I mean, I'm sure any leader during that time would say it was hard to say. Not only because of their own personal safety and their family, but these large organizations. And then as you said, you know, McDonald's touches so many people. And how do we think about through such an incredible crisis, having a positive impact on people? And so, you know, that was something we were thinking about all the time. How do we have a positive impact in the communities with the people we serve with our crew? In terms of little things like safety procedures, bigger things like, you know, how do we donate food to hospitals that were in need or to frontline workers, to first responders? And then to, you know, as we, as we started to stabilize a bit more just in, from a marketing perspective, how do we provide a little bit of fun and how people interact with the brand again? So as a leader, I mean, as say it was just an incredible, incredible time to be part of a big business that's so central to, to the U.S.
LJR: Sure. And I'm thinking that there's nothing—I'm sure you learned how to learn and all those things—but there's nothing in your history major, or really your MBA that really prepares you for that. And I don't even mean the pandemic. Like that, that level of we are touching you said 90% of the U.S. population, but even on the global scale, as I said, like, everyone knows this brand, even if they don't use it daily. I don't think that you're, you couldn't have known that this was going to be where you landed or
MF: Oh my gosh, no. Yeah. I mean, I would have, I wouldn't have believed you if you said it's where I was going to land. Nor is it—and this might seem weird to say—it's not ever what I aspired to, right? You know, I aspire to surround myself with great people and like take on hard things and have fun doing it basically. Right. And like all of a sudden you're thrown into this and you're like, holy shit, how did that happen? And how do I make sure I keep surrounding myself with great people and try to do hard things and have fun doing it.
LJR: And have a life aside from this, right? You're not in a bubble.
MF: Yeah. I mean, I have three young kids, you know.
LJR: Three?! Wow.
MF: Yes, they are 11, nine and five.
LJ: Five. Oh my gosh. So you took on the McDonald's gig when he was…
MF: Yeah he was like just over a year when I think that's right, just over a year when I started here and I do have a funny story about him. He's…so I have two girls and Wes, my son, and I will say my kids are so central to who I am as a leader. And part of, I think my role with the team is to just let all of that mess like blur in and out. Like I do not hide what's going on at home from what's going on at work. And there's a funny story that reinforces it, which is we were like three weeks into the pandemic. And the U.S. leadership team was meeting, you know, from home three times a day, five days a week. And then like on the weekends. And our last call every day was at six o'clock at night and it was always on WebEx. And one evening, my son Wes, who was like, I don't know, can't remember how old he was at the time. I guess he was for three and a half or yeah, appears like naked on camera behind me in front of the entire like leadership team. And he’s just like dancing around, naked on camera. And I said to the team, I'm sorry. It's like bath time. His bathroom was like right off of where I was working. And I like was so, and I had like told this story so many times because what it led to was more understanding of what we were all coping with at home. And what I was coping with at home at six o'clock at night was like total and utter chaos. And my boss said, You know what? I sense that this is not a great time for us to be having a standing call. Why don't we start doing this at four o'clock? And I was like. Thank you. Thank you.
LJR: That's listening. That's that deep listening.
MF: It's listening. And it's also not being afraid to let people see the messiness of our reality that we're dealing with. And I hope one of my, I think, reflections on the pandemic is it brought all of that much more front and center and it's made us more human leaders to our people. So I just, I hope that's going to continue because I think it's really important to us, but also to the next generation behind us and how they're going to lead.
LJR: And what would you say is at the core of your leadership now?
MF: At least for me, and I'm sure every person you talk to has their different things that guide them. I mean, it all comes down to people and how you connect with people for me and our values as a company and my values as a leader and using that to guide the work we do and the decisions we make. So, you know, I find, I have to surround myself with a lot of people. I really trust who I have helped guide me and the company through, through tough decisions. And I've been fortunate that I have a really great team around me that that makes that much easier.
LJR: And I know kind of in this, I don't know if it was exacerbated or accelerated through the pandemic, but I think this is an era where marketers are having to really recognize that they need to listen to the user and consumer. And, and that probably helps guide if not kind of mold and shape those values, like put a face to them and real motivations and real needs and you know, expectations.
MF: And, you know, what's been interesting here at McDonald's and is I think a little challenging on that is, you know, when I worked at Gatorade, we really spoke to like athletes. And so you had like this like clear picture of who you were talking to, but so McDonald's, it's everyone, like again, there's certainly a small segment of the population that doesn't come to McDonald's, but how are you guided by your customer when you're like one of the most democratic brands in the world? And so that's been really interesting in how we think about our customer, right? And you got to get out of this like corporate ivory tower. When you think about who we serve day in and day out and who our crew are day in and day out. And you know how you connect with those people with that group, I mean, and stay relevant to them. So. It's a little hard when it's everyone. It's almost everyone.
LJR: I love that. I really hadn't put that together, but if you often hear it, like you can't please everyone all the time, but you're having to, right?
MF: Yeah. Well, the other thing, cause you mentioned nutrition, which is always like a little touchy when we talk about McDonald's. But you realize what you're really good at. And I think that's what has been part of my realization is we're really, really good at burgers and fries. And so like, let's not try and be healthy nutrition. Now that being said, I was just today in the kitchen tasting some plant-based products. And, you know, we have a McPlant, which is a plant-based burger that we're rolling out in different parts of the world. And we know when, when the time is right, we will sell a lot of like plant-based products and we'll make it taste absolutely delicious and craveable. So, you know, how you apply or how we apply kind of our ‘We serve craveable delicious food at the speed of McDonald's at a good price’ to new segments, like plant-based. And it's really interesting, I think, to start to think about those opportunities for us.
LJR: For sure. And there goes the return to the human centered creativity. Interesting.
MF: Yeah, totally. I mean, it's so fun to think about how one day. 14,000 restaurants in the U S close to 30,000 restaurants around the world. You know how much we will democratize plant-based proteins. And that's where I get really like, think about the power of that and the impact that will have on the world.
LJR: Yeah. Well, I mean, even other things like the no plastic toy. All…right? So like all of the kinds of things as we evolve as a society—hopefully always for the better or not really, but, we aspire—that company can come along and your creativity will be necessary. And your leadership and your, you know, bringing, convening those really great people around you. I don't think you're going to get tired or bored.
MF: No, there's so much. There's so much to do. I might get impatient at times, like the plastic toy pieces and other great example, like, you know…Little known secret: The largest toy manufacturer, I think, in the world. And so by 2025, as you said, those are all, we will not have plastic at all. Obvious, sustainable recyclable toys and our happy meals. It just takes a while to get that done because of our scale. So I need to make sure I've got kind of like a steady cadence of how we can keep driving change and ultimately using our scale and reach to, to leave the world in a better place. And that's not something people think often about McDonald's, but I think there's something really powerful in that.
LJR: And you're here now. I mean, who knows what the next step for you is going to be, but I am certain that it's always going to keep kind of that fire for the next win that comes, when we pull together a really cool people after a problem, and be creative about it. I'm excited to see how this chapter unfolds for you, but to watch, watch all the next one. I can't wait to see that.
MF: You and me both.
LJR: Thank you so much for being here.
MF: Thank you, Leslie. It's great to be here. It's great to see you.
LJR: That was Morgan Flatley, whose career in brand management and marketing has included some of the world's most iconic brands. After more than a decade at PepsiCo working for 10 years on Gatorade, she was named chief marketing and digital customer experience officer for McDonald's USA, and just recently was promoted to global chief marketing officer. Morgan was named by Forbes to its World's Most Influential CMOs list for two consecutive years, rising to number six worldwide in 2021. And has also been recognized with Adweek's most prestigious ‘Brand Genius’ honor. Luckily we haven't even begun to exhaust the store of geniuses we can interview for this show. So be sure to follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so that you can get a new story delivered to your device each week by me, Leslie Jennings Rowley on future episodes of Roads Taken.