Aspiring lawyer Carrrie Kuss took the opportunity to try out the profession during a stint as a paralegal. But the unorthodox type of support she ended up giving her partner uncovered the career she never knew she was made for. Find out how walking down a path is sometimes the only way to figure out the fit.
Guest Carrie Kuss, Dartmouth ’96, was at first sure that she was a future veterinarian. But after a few chemistry classes and more government classes, she was equally sure she was a future attorney, if not Supreme Court justice. Being waitlisted for law schools, she decided to make sure the law would be the right path and so served as a paralegal for a few years.
While in a large firm in Boston, the law partner for whom she worked decided he wanted to run a charity golf tournament. The opportunity to organize and run the tournament for charity felt much more meaningful to Carrie than the on-the-job legal education she had been getting. And it introduced her to the world of non-profit fundraising, a field she knew nothing about previously. When she ran a marathon for another charity and ended up being a key organizer along the way, she got enough experience to know this is something that felt right for her.
In this episode, find out from Carrie how walking down a path is sometimes the only way to figure out the fit…on ROADS TAKEN...with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode's Guest
Carrie Kuss is senior director of field fitness programs with St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital where she has spent over two decades working in various programmatic and fundraising capacities. She lives in Colorado and travels when she can. Find out more about her organization at StJude.org.
Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings Rowley
Music: Brian Burrows
Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com
Email the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com
Carrie Kuss: Somebody said to me, well, if you're going to make a change, the only one that can make a change is you. You can’t wait for somebody else to make the change for you. I realized at that point, I was like: It’s absolutely right. Why am I waiting? Why am I waiting for something to happen to me? I am the only one to make that thing happen.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: Aspiring lawyer Carrie Kuss took the opportunity to try out the profession during a stint as a paralegal. But the unorthodox type of support she ended up giving her partner uncovered the career she never knew she was made for. Find out how walking down a path is sometimes the only way to figure out the fit...on today's ROADS TAKEN with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
I’m here today with Carrie Kuss and we’re going to talk about walking down paths to see how they feel. So I'm glad you walked onto this path today. Glad to have you here with us.
CK: Thanks so much. I’m happy to be here.
LJR: So I start this the same way every time. And I ask: when we were in college, who were you and when we were getting ready to leave, who did you think you would become?
CK: That is such an interesting question. Because I can tell you that I was wrong on both counts. When we started college, I was very convinced I was a future veteran. When we left college, I was very convinced equally as convinced that I was a future district attorney and attorney just in general. And as of today, I am neither of those—not even close. I definitely took a path that I didn't even know existed when we left Hanover in 1996.
LJR: Already, we have a very interesting set of changes. So when you came in as a future veterinarian, what was the pathway to make you think by the end of that four years, Oh, no, I'm an attorney. And I will say I met you somewhere in the middle of that because the veterinarian is new to me. The attorney part, I recognize that part of who you thought you were, but tell me what that transition was already.
CK: Letting go of the future as a veterinarian was very early in our freshman year. I think I took some classes in chemistry and I was like, you know, this is just not my cup of tea. And while I was really unhappy in the science world, I was also taking government classes and history classes. And I was reminded of my love of both of those subjects that I had in high school and I continued to pursue the government degree and was, actually ended up being a double major in both of those. But it was really, I took a course on the Supreme Court in our government department and I loved it. I thought it was the coolest thing.
And Professor Bader, at the time, I still remember her because just the way she approached the class was so inspiring to me. And she actually, as our final, had us write a Supreme Court decision that had not yet been decided by the court. You know, look at both sides, determine what the decision would be. And then she would follow back up with us when the court decided, and I decided what the court did and it was a very…80% of the class went the other direction and 20% of us want this direction. I just thought that that was the neatest thing. So that's when I decided to do a senior thesis on the Supreme Court. I was not only going to be a prosecuting attorney, but I was eventually going to be a Supreme Court justice. So I guess that I change my answer. I was going to…I was a future Supreme court justice. I am not right now.
LJR: Not yet. Some of them are old, so we have some time. We have time.
CK: There's still a chance. Yeah. So that was the transition that I took from being a veterinarian to being a future Supreme Court justice was actually at Dartmouth.
LJR: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. So talk to me about that senior spring, you're finishing up a thesis that says this is who I'm going to be. Though, I know that you were practical and knew that that would not be your first step into chambers. So what was the path right then?
CK: Right. So senior spring finishing up the thesis. And I was applying to law school and assuming that I was going to go to law school upon graduation, and then I actually ended up getting wait-listed to law school. So I said, you know, well, okay, I guess I'll take a different track. And the way I tell the story, when people ask me, I say, you know, I was practical. I decided that I was going to test drive the legal profession before I spent a whole lot of time and a whole lot of money on law school and going into a profession that ended up not being for me. That was not the reason, but that's the way I tell the story. That was the plan. And then, so I, after graduation, I started working at a law firm in Boston. And so It was a paralegal for three years kind of test driving that career.
LJR: And what did you think? Was it what you thought it would be?
CK: So it was not, but it also wasn't something that I hated, but I think what was interesting to me was that it brought me down a different path that I didn't know existed. So I think one of the things that I found about life in general really was you don't always know what's in front of you until you've started down the path and you have to kind of follow where the path leads you. Because when we graduated, I really thought that, you know, my parents were teachers, so I could be a teacher. I could be a lawyer. I could be a doctor or I could do corporate recruiting, which to me seemed like there was a lot of IT and a lot of consulting, whatever that meant. At the time, I mean, what did I know as a 22-year-old? What is consulting really? Right? Those are the paths that really seemed most obvious to me. And I didn't know that there was a path called nonprofit fundraising.
So while I was at this law firm, my boss at the time, who was a partner in the law firm, decided that he wanted to have a golf tournament for his favorite charity. And if you know anything about law partners and paralegals, you know, that the law partner was not planning the golf tournament for his favorite charity, his paralegal was. I was planning the golf tournament for his favorite charity. I loved doing it. It was so rewarding. It was, it kept me excited about what I was doing every day.
And it was the question of, do I enjoy writing answers to interrogatories or scanning medical records for something that looked out of place? Or did I really like feeling like I was making a difference raising money for a worthwhile cause? So that was my exposure. And my boss at the time still tries to get me to come back. He's like, come back, you could do this. I'm like, you know what? You introduced me to something else that's so much more fun and so much more rewarding. Why would I come back? Sorry, Chris. I'm not going to do it. So that's kind of, again, the nonlinear path of how I got to where I am now. There's no way I would have guessed it even.
LJR: Right. You had to do it. You had to do it. So you did, but that was as someone's volunteer or volunteered person for a one-off event. How did you make that leap to say, okay, I thought I was going to spend all this money and now I'm going to go do this other thing? What was your first job and you haven't had many ’cause you've stayed in one organization for a very long time. So tell me what the hop was to get to where you are today.
CK: Yeah, so I think I had made that decision that the legal profession was not for me, that I really wanted to go into the nonprofit world. And then there was another serendipitous moment as well, while I was still in Boston, where I went to the gym one day and I picked up a brochure to run a marathon in Dublin. And I was like, well, Hey, I could go to Dublin. That'd be fun. So I started training for this marathon for a different charity than I work for now. And I thought that was really great, too. And I was writing the newsletter for a marathon team and I was connecting with people. So file that away a little bit as something that was kind of in my experience as well.
And then I was moving to DC, leaving Boston. So I needed to find a new job. So I was like, all right, this is my big chance for my career move, you know, three years into my career. So I decided to change fields and I started looking for jobs in non-profit and I applied for a job with that charity that I ran a marathon for.
And then I also applied for a job with that charity that I planned the golf tournament for, which is St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. And St. Jude gave me the opportunity to be a part of building their marathon program. So this marathon that I had just run and had this great experience and marrying it with this great cause that I had planned a golf tournament for the entire time that I was at the law firm in Boston.
And I thought, okay, this is it. This is my chance to do it. So that's where, you know, I was moving to DC and changing my career. And I, I ended up in this with St. Jude, which really, I feel like I kind of stumbled in at the top of the mountain, but, you know, it was a cause that I completely believed in, a mission that I found really inspiring—finding a way to play a role in fighting childhood cancer. And I've never looked back and here I am.
I don't know. Somebody actually said a few weeks ago to me that the days are long, but the years are short. Sometimes that's how I feel like, man, how is it only Tuesday? But then I'm like, man, how has it been 22 years that I have been with this organization? It's been an amazing ride.
LJR: And I can attest that that is amazing because, having been in non-profits in various capacities and various different types, there is a sense of urgency all the time and a sense that even great breakthroughs and progress…You said you came on to the top of the mountain, meaning like this is a great organization and they were so established, but it's like part of a mountain chain, right? So there will never be—well, hopefully there will sometimes be—an end to childhood cancer, but there's all, you know, in our lifetime, there is going to be some other hurdle and that can be both inspiring and really hard to deal with day after day. So it's amazing, yes, that you've been there for…what is your strategy for making things new or making the gargantuan task of the mission not feel overwhelming?
CK: Yeah. I think that that's a really interesting point because there have definitely been people on my teams that it's clear that the role that they're in doesn't excite them. It is something that they don't enjoy, that maybe they're not good at, but they say, you know, I'm going to stick with it because I believe in this mission so much. And have say, It's great to believe in the mission. There's a way to still support the mission, but not have to do a job that you don't enjoy. And I think that's also why it's very hard for people to leave sometimes because they feel so committed to the mission. I think I've been very lucky over the years that I believe in the mission and have met so many children along the way that have kept me inspired. But at the same time, I've had the opportunity to grow in my role. I've had the opportunity to seek new challenges, and I think that's something kind of in my DNA of what's next? What can I do? What can I fix in a system, in a process? What can I build that's new and make sure that I'm always challenging myself and forcing myself to grow so that I don't get in a rut or burned out?
And I've had that opportunity, with St. Jude, I lived in three different states. I've taken different roles on different teams. I've led different teams. So I think that I've always had that fluidity, even if I've been with the same organization. The mission is the same, but the roles have been very different. Yeah. And so, you know, those internal challenges are. As interesting and life affirming as like the big challenge of the goal of the organization.
LJR: That's great. So how have you found balance in life? Because I also know even from some of the people that we've interviewed on this show there's sometimes isn't as much work life balance as one might think when it's not, you know, for profit bottom line, sometimes it's even worse. So how do you find the balance? Are there other things that are, that draw you and your energies?
CK: Yeah, I think I had a little bit of an epiphany about a decade ago and I think it was right, I was going through a hard time in my personal life. You know, I think like so many Type A personalities that, that you've spoken to on this podcast, you tend to, when, when one side of your life isn't, isn't going so great, you throw yourself into your work. Right? I was doing that. My life was changing and I was in this dark place. And the only thing that was keeping me kind of afloat was my job.
And then I realized that that also wasn't healthy because I was completely defining myself by my job. Well, my job was incredibly fulfilling. It also can be very draining. And if you don't have that balance, then, then that's really difficult. And I remember sitting in a new apartment by myself thinking, you know, where am I going from here?
And somebody said to me, well, if you're going to make a change, the only one that can make the changes. You can't wait for somebody else to make the change for you. And I realized at that point, I was like, that's absolutely right. Why am I waiting? Why am I waiting for something to happen to me? I'm the only one that can make that thing happen.
So what does that thing look like? And at that point, I decided to start looking at other options. It ended up being staying with St. Jude, but leaving the city where I was not happy, going back to the Midwest where I swore that I was going to never go back to once I graduated high school. And essentially, I went back there and I started to kind of recover and find myself again and figure out who I was. Again, that was the first part of my epiphany is realizing that I needed to make my own decisions about what I’d like to do with my life.
And then I also decided that it couldn't all be about work. I said to myself, I was like, all right, what does that mean for me? What do I love to do? The answer at that point in time was I love to travel. And I think that came from even starting with, with my LSA at Dartmouth and you know, spending a term in Germany, which, you know, was this great experience and something that I still tell Dartmouth applicants when I do alumni interviewing today, that that really defined this love of travel for me.
So then I was like, well, I don't have a partner at this point in time, but what am I waiting for? I'm not going to wait to retire. I'm just going to, I'm going to start doing this. So I found a friend and I said, you know, I think you love to travel, too. Want to go to the Galapagos islands? She was like, heck yeah, let's do it.
So I made a commitment then to really start exploring and take those vacations that seem like, you know, once in a lifetime vacations. Why did they have to be like once in a lifetime? And that's where I found that balance. It was, I always had something to look forward to. I always had a trip. I always had something that gave me a focus other than my job.
Yeah. That was kind of the start of that. And then I, when I asked myself that question again, I said, I’d just taken this job where I could work from home. And I said, if I can work anywhere that I live. Why do I live in Michigan? Let’s find a place that I really want to live. And that's what brought me to Colorado.
So again, that whole nonlinear path to getting, getting where you belong. You know, I'm not sure this might not be the end, but it still feels pretty great.
LJR: Yeah. Well, it sounds it. And so with that, I mean, you said early, you were sure that you were going to be a future veterinarian and you were sure you were going to be a district attorney and that you were wrong. So if you were to go back and have a conversation with 22 year old Carrie and said, by the way, this is where you're going to end up, what do you think she would have said to you? I think she probably would have said, is that a thing? But I don't think I would have believed it. First of all, I also believe that when you're 22 years old, there's a whole lot. You don't know, even though you think you really, you have it together. You are good. But I think that you have to, you have to live it in order to understand what's out there for you and understand that fit. Because I don't think you do. I don't think you have that vision at 22 to be able to even map out what things look when you’re at 32 or 42 or 52. You have to live it.
LJR: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you are an example of that, and I'm so glad to hear the smile in your voice when you say I don’t know if this the end but this is great for now. Because that is where we should all be feeling, or least trying to get there. So I will take inspiration from you on that point. And it's just so great to reconnect. So thanks so much for sharing this story with us, Carrie.
CK: Absolutely. Looking forward to hearing more stories. These are great.
LJR: That was Carrie Kuss, who has spent over two decades working in various programmatic and fundraising capacities for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, all without knowing that the field of non-profit fundraising existed before she started doing it. Just as Carrie had to walk her road awhile to figure out it would lead somewhere she wanted to go, most of our guests get on their roads without having a true sense of the final destination. We are SO grateful for all of our listeners who have revisited our guests' roads with us and are ever more thankful that you return for more stories each week and share the word about the podcast with others. You can point folks to RoadsTakenShow.com. And please be sure to rate, follow, subscribe, and review on your podcasting platform of choice, so that others can find their way to me, Leslie Jennings Rowley and our friends on more episodes of ROADS TAKEN.