When Heather McNemar was in high school, her family took a year traveling around the world, with one longish stop in Siberia. The culture and language took hold and she knew exactly what she would be studying in college. Wanting to translate that into a life of both travel and service, she found her own way to do that and then teamed up with her husband for a new take on the theme. Find out how finding your way in a new place can also help others do likewise.
Guest Heather McNemar experienced a taste of world travel while in high school, when her father took a sabbatical and the family visited many spots, including Siberia for a slightly extended stay. Heather was drawn to the language and the culture and knew she would study both in college. Later, as she was making her way into the world, she didn’t know exactly how she would use her skills but knew she wanted to help people. She got a job helping newly settled immigrants to the U.S. get jobs and realized that good language skills were key to their success. She began taking classes to teach English as a Second Language and landed a spot as a Peace Corps volunteer in Kazakhstan. While there, she met the man who would become her husband, also a Peace Corps volunteer but had his sights set on diplomatic work with the U.S. Department of State.
In this episode, find out from Heather how finding your way in a new place can also help others do likewise…on Roads Taken with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode’s Guest
Heather McNemar is a former Peace Corps volunteer who has gone round this girdled earth a number of times with her family as her husbnad has been posted with the U.S. State Department. Her fluency in Russian and her expertise in helping others find their footing in new places and new careers has been helpful in many of her posts. She is currently in the middle of a stint in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, and continues running, finding that it is often a great way to get to know a new place.
For another story about the peripatetic life that comes with a State Department gig, listen to our episode with Joey Hood.
Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com
Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings Rowley
Music: Brian Burrows
Email the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com
Heather McNemar: When you're in Peace Corps and you go to the capital and you see like people who work for the State Department for the embassy and they always have really nice houses and everybody always wanted to get asked like housesit for someone who worked for the embassy because they had like a refrigerator and you know, other fancy things. So I was like, oh, now we're like, you know, we're moving up. We're moving up from Peace Corps into State Department.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: When Heather McNemar was in high school, her family took a year traveling around the world, with a fairly long stop in Siberia. The culture and language took hold and she knew exactly what she would be studying in college. Wanting to translate that into a life of both travel and service, she found her own way to do that and then teamed up with her husband for a new take on the theme. Find out how finding your way in a new place can also help others do likewise...on today's Roads Taken with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
I'm here with Heather McNemar and we are going to talk about wanderings and timing and how one ends up where they are.
So Heather, great to have you here. Thanks so much.
HM: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
LJR: So Heather, we start this with everyone the same way, with two questions, and they are these: When we were in college, who were you? And when we were getting ready to leave, who did you think you would become?
HM: So I would say when we were in college, I was a person who was very focused on one sort of area and subject, and that was the Russian language and Russia. Big part of the reason why I had ended up at Dartmouth was because of their strong language programs and their strong Russian program. I really wanted to study Russian. I wanted to study in Russia. That really was my focus so that when I think back to who I was at that time, I think of a person who was very focused on that sort of area.
LJR: How did you become that, if you don't mind my asking?
HM: Yeah, sure. As an 18 year old so I actually had had sort of a unique a very unique experience. My father was the headmaster of a private school when I was growing up and when I was in ninth grade, he got a sabbatical and he decided to spend it traveling around the world to visit all the different programs that this private school had. And he took me and my sister, who were then in ninth and seventh grade with him, and it changed my life. I wouldn't, Yeah, it changed my life. We spent time in a bunch of different places, but the most time was in Siberia. We spent a month living in a small town in Siberia. My sister and I went to public school and my parents kind of interacted with the school there, and that started my interest in Russian. And you remember at that time it was sort of an unusual thing to study. So I think as a teenager I was kind of attracted to that. Like, Oh, I'm doing this thing that’s kind of cool and different and makes me stand out a little bit. And then I met people and I had friends and actually a girl that I met at that time then came and lived with us for a year the next year. So I started to have those personal connections with the culture and the people and just kind of fell in love with it. So that started my kind of interest in Russian and traveling overseas and living overseas, and was definitely a life changing experience.
LJR: Yeah. Yeah. Well thanks for that interruption. So back there, you were in college and how did that manifest itself in what you pursued and how you pursued it and what you were thinking for the after?
HM: So I focused on Russian. I decided to major in Russian area studies. I had studied Russian in high school, so I came in in second year Russian. So I was able to kind of, I had gotten those kind of basic classes out of the way. I was able to take sort of more interesting, more challenging courses. And then spring of our sophomore year, I studied in St. Petersburg on the study abroad program, which was also a really cool experience. Yeah. And then just kept studying Russian. And then I ended up, I decided to major in Russian area studies. That was a combination major, which was a little bit of language, a little bit of history, a little bit of literature, so I could take courses in sort of all those different aspects that I was really interested in.
LJR: Mid 90s, the world being what it was, it was probably a pretty good time to say, I have all of these interests and expertise. Who was looking for that and where did you think you would, or where did you end up?
HM: Yes. So that…when I was thinking about our conversation and sort of trying to remember back to that time, I was like, What did I think I was going to do with a Russian degree? And I can't really remember what I thought I would do. I can remember what I didn't wanna do. So I didn't want to be, for example, an interpreter. I had done an internship at Beth Israel Hospital in Boston for a semester where I was a medical interpreter and realized how my Russian was not, was not very good at that point.
LJR: Like your medical Russian at least.
HR: Yeah, I felt very good about, like, I learned words about, you know, bunions and kinda things that I didn't know before. But I knew that I didn't wanna go in that direction. I had always had a desire to do something to help people. That had kind of been where my focus had been, but I didn't really, I wasn't really sure how that was going to work out.
So as we were leaving Dartmouth, I remember I signed up for corporate recruiting because that's how you could get an interview with Peace Corps. So that was the only thing I was interested in for corporate recruiting. But I would get, you know, all the like, information and, and I was looking at. What I, it was just like a whole new world for me, the world…of the corporate world. As I said, my parents were in education. I was coming from kind of a different background. I was thinking about how can I use this to help people? And so I applied to like City Year in Boston. I applied to some like volunteer core things. Again, trying to find something where I could do that.
I can't remember why I never interviewed with Peace Corps or why I decided not to go in that direction. I think maybe I felt like beyond just the language skills, I didn't have. A skill to offer in Peace Corps. You know, I couldn't teach anybody anything. I didn't really, I just, I sort of had the language. And as I was looking, I was lucky: A friend of my parents' daughter was working in Boston for Jewish Vocational Services, which is a nonprofit organization that at that time, And now also but especially at that time was helping refugees find employment. So I interviewed there and got a job as a job developer, which meant I was working with refugees mainly from the former Soviet Union, but also from Somalia and Vietnam and Bosnia and all different places. So it really was a great way for me to use my Russian skills, but also do that helping aspect that I had really wanted to be able to do. So it was a great experience for me especially coming right out of college and trying to get people jobs and help them get their lives started in the United States, but also use my Russian. So I was lucky I landed there.
LJR: For How long did you stay?
HM: So I was there for three years until 1999, and then I decided I would join the Peace Corps because in that work I saw. One of the skills that people really needed to start their lives in the US was English. And so I thought I wanted to kind of transition into becoming an ESL teacher, so I started taking some courses in that and getting interested in that, and I applied for Peace Corps and I found out I was going to be going, but they couldn't quite tell me when. So I moved in with my parents kept taking classes and I ended up finding out I was going to Kazakhstan in the year 2000. So I went to Kazakhstan in 2000 and was assigned to a city way up in the north where I taught at a university. So it wasn't kind of what people think of as a typical Peace Corps experience. I was living in an apartment. I was teaching at a university. I was working with teachers. But it was, for me, it was a great experience because I think coming out of Dartmouth, I had the language skills, I had background in the culture and, and the literature as I was saying, but I had some trepidation about kind of like getting on a plane and going to Moscow, and you could do that then. There were, you know, there were people who did that, who found jobs, you know, in, you know, Moscow, St. Petersburg at that time. You could work at a law firm, you could work at, you know, an accounting firm, and I, I just. Have the courage to do that. I remember thinking like, how would I get from the airport to my apartment or something? And now I'm just like, ah, you know, like you just wanna shake your 21 year old self and be like, you could do it like
LJR: But you needed, but you needed some, you know, some assurance. Like it was all gonna be all right. And, and that was time bound. And so while you were, when you were starting that, or in the early stages of that, did you think Okay, at the end of. You were gonna go back and do ESL work in the United States? Or that was the plan?
HM: Yeah, that was the plan, Yeah. But when I was living there my Russian skills really improved and I really connected with people and I kind of made a little life for myself for two years. I mean, it's a short period of time, but it was definitely impactful. I met my husband who was a, also a Peace Corps volunteer. He was a volunteer in Kazakhstan at the same time. And then we started dating when we came back. So that kind of set my life in that direction with him.
LJR: Yes. Yes. What I didn't tell the audience that I know is that you are in Central Asia sitting in Uzbekistan right now. So yes. You said you came back. So let's hear about that part. But ultimately it wasn't gonna be forever. So what happened right after Peace Corps when you had this future husband?
HM: Yeah, so I came back and I was living in Boston again. I was teaching ESL, doing the, you know, I think I worked like six different jobs all part-time trying to piece together, just getting experience and, and using the skills that I had developed in Peace Corps. My husband and I started dating pretty seriously the year after I got back, but at that time I had already applied to grad school. So I moved to Washington, DC for a year. I went to grad school to get my master's in Applied Linguistics. It ended up only taking me a year because I had done some other coursework. So I was able to go back to Boston and do the ESL thing again while living with him. And then he was also applying for the State Department and was thinking about going in that direction. So I knew before we even got engaged, before we got married, that that's what I was signing up for that and that was appealing to me that we were making this choice to start this life together, but I knew it would be moving in that direction of, again, living overseas. And when you're in Peace Corps and you go to the capital and you see like people who work for the State Department for the embassy, and they always had really nice houses and everybody always wanted to get asked like for someone who worked for the embassy because they had like a refrigerator and you know, other fancy things. So I was like, Oh, now we're like, you know, we're moving up. We're moving up from Peace Corps to State Department. And I thought with my work that I would be able, I was like, Oh, you know, I have English teaching experience. I have this masters now I should be able to take my career with me and to be able to do that while he's working for the State Department.
LJR: And in addition to teaching, what does one who has learned the skills of Applied Linguistics do in the world?
HR: No idea, I dunno. I dunno. They they apply linguistics to…No. So I had thought that I wasn't sure if I wanted to continue in academia and, you know, become a professor or the study linguistics more kind of in depth. And I thought that an applied linguistics degree would be sort of a flexible degree where if I wanted to continue, if I wanted to pursue my PhD, then you know, that would be a good first step if I didn't, if I wanted to continue teaching. It's a degree that you can teach ESL with. Yeah, and I took some courses that were related more to kind of ESL teaching and teaching rather than just focusing on kind of the like scientific aspect of it.
LJR: Yeah. So what we know from having spoken to some of our other classmates who are in the State Department, it is an exciting career and you, I guess you get refrigerators and things, but it is really kind of at the whim of our government, where you might go next and when you might get there and all of that. So you said you were along for the ride. How bumpy was that? Or was it a smooth process for you and where has life taken you?
HM: Well, I think we've been lucky. I mean, I think. State Department tends to be a little bit more predictable than, for example, military families who are really moved around without a lot of notice. We so far in our experience—my husband bids on jobs every two or three years. It's almost like a job search where he identifies, you know, where he is qualified to go, the jobs that are available. So we have some control over it. So we, our first post was in Kiev, Ukraine, and then we were in Moscow and Brazilia, and then we were back in the States for a little bit, and then we were in Brussels and now we're here in Tashkent. So we've spent a lot of time in the former more Soviet Union, so I've been able to use my Russian, which has been really good and has made things a lot easier, especially, you know, as we were kind of starting out in this lifestyle. But it's challenging for spouses, especially in terms of what they're going to do about their work. And you know, even if you can predict it, just the fact that you're moving every two or three years, it makes it hard for people to put together a career and, and I was lucky when we were moving to Brussels. My kids were a little bit older. I took some time off when my kids were younger; I wasn't working. And then my kids were a little bit older. We were moving to Brussels and there was a job posted for what was called a Global Employment Advisor. And I had never heard of this job before, but my husband looked at the description and was like, This sounds like something that you would be good at or that you would like; you should think about applying for this. And I looked at it and it was similar to what I had done with refugees back in Boston. Kind of a combination of teaching and counseling and working with people like me who, you know, were trying to figure out how they were going to put maybe not even a career, but just a life beyond the spouse of so and so, a professional life, a professional identity together.
So I applied for that job. Didn't get it the first time, but then it opened up again a year later. When we were there, I applied again. I'm like, I'm still here. I'm still interested. And they're like, Okay, yes. Now you can get it. So I was able to do that in Brussels for a year and a half, which was great, but it was only for the Brussels community. Brussels has three missions, so there's a big community there, but then when we left, I had to leave that job. And so I, for the first time, experienced that, you know, the job was tied to the post. We left the post. I had to leave the job. But I said to the people I worked with, I'm, you know, I really like this. I'm really interested. I had just kind of felt like I was getting up to speed. Keep me in mind if there's anything. And they contacted me last March, I guess, after we had been here a little while and said, Are you still interested in working? We have a regional position that we would be interested in talking to you about. And I was like, Yes, yes, I would. I would love to. So whereas in Brussels I was working with people who were just in Brussels, I'm now working for them, covering Central Asia, China, and Mongolia. So working with spouses at all of those missions, trying to help them and support them and give them information about career-related things. So it's been a good, a really good fit for me because it's part-time. I work from home. It's very flexible also because I'm able to do the things that I want to do, which is to help people. People who are like me to help my community. And having been in this lifestyle for I think like 17 years, I feel like I've had kind of both the good and the bad experiences. And if I can help support people as they're going through that, you know, maybe for the first time or trying to figure things out, then that's awesome. I really enjoy it. It's a really good fit for me, so…
LJR: Yeah, for sure. And I love that it does tie back to one of your earlier experiences and so thinking about that earlier experience with your family and your dad taking the family around the world, you're now doing that for your kids. And so how is it being a mother in this scenario too? I mean, what are the things that you're excited for, for your kids, or maybe on the flip side, like, ooh, you're trying to watch out for?
HM: Yeah, it's the only way that I've been a parent because, you know, we went into the foreign service without kids. We had our kids since we've been in this lifestyle. They don't know anything different. As I said, we were back in the US for about four years, when they were four and six until they were eight and 10. And so it's challenging, but we think that the good things outweigh the bad things and we try to focus on that and keep that in mind.
But yeah, there's aspects of it that I think are challenging, but also that are rewarding when I see the different kind of kids that—So my kids go to international schools. So they're studying in English. But the other students are from all different countries. And then like for example, here in Uzbekistan, also local kids from Uzbekistan. So I feel like they're just exposed to so many different perspectives and hearing, you know, just their conversations in class and out of class. I can't imagine. I think it's really important for them to be able to interact with, and study with, and fight with and agree with people from all those different places is, I think, a positive thing. But you know, we have to have conversations with them about cultural things. I have a 14 year old daughter, and the way that she would like to dress is not always the way that I think she should be dressing especially in a country like Uzbekistan. She just has to think of some things that, you know, I didn't have to think of when I was growing up and having those type of conversations.
But we just think that the positives outweigh the negatives. But it definitely, it puts a different kind of spin on parenting. We're constantly thinking about like, okay, you know, when this tour ends, what are we gonna do about the next tour? Because just all of the things that have to kind of coincide and fit together, it's just, it gets complicated. And then, you know, my husband's trying to make his career go forward. We're trying to find good schools for the kids. And then I'm like, and me and my job and, you know, it gets kind of complicated. And then the dog and you. [LJR: Oh gosh.] Yeah. .
LJR: Right, right. So in this, what's the time bound for this tour for you guys?
HM: So we came on a two year tour. We decide to extend, so we're here for three years. We finished one year and we have two more years. So my husband will bid on jobs next fall, but when we leave, we'll have a rising ninth grader and a rising 11th grader. And we usually go on three year tours and we just, we don't want the ninth grader, we don't have, want him to have to move for senior year. So I keep saying to my husband, I feel like this is like the hardest one that we've had to do. Right? Because when they were little, it was just like, Oh, guess what? You know, we're moving to Brazilia tomorrow. And they're like, Okay. You know, and they just, you know, came along with us because they didn't know any different and, and now it's, you know, when we were coming here, it was a lot of conversations about like, how much should we tell them? How much shouldn't we tell them? You know, when my husband was being considered for certain places and I even got to the point where I was like, Don't tell me anything. Like I just, I cannot emotionally like think about all these things. Just tell me when you have a job and then like, I'll be excited and supportive and yeah. So it just. Yeah, it's complicated, but we hope that in the end it's a net positive for them.
LJR: Oh yeah.
HM: That's what we all hope for our kids.
LJR: Exactly, Exactly. And the diversity of experience that they're getting. You know, of course we all have good days and bad days. Theirs just happened to be in more what we would consider exotic places. So I guess with all the technology that we have now, you're a little bit closer to home than you would've been had this happened 20 years ago. But are there tricks of the trade that you have for keeping in touch with people or is it just happenstance, Oh look, there's a Dartmouth person walking by and…Have you had experiences like that?
HM: Yes. I actually did have a funny experience with that last year when we had just gotten here. I was in the grocery store on like a Tuesday morning. Not in the center of Tashkent, like, you know, we, we live like not in suburbia, but I wasn't in downtown Tashkent. And I went around the corner and I saw an older gentleman wearing a Dartmouth hockey T-shirt. And I was like, What? And we see people here wearing like Harvard t-shirts in Yale that are clearly like some kind of Chinese knockoffs, but this was a Dartmouth t-shirt. I was like, I have to say something. So I kind of like followed him around to see if I could hear if he was speaking English. And he was. And so then I went up to him and I was like, Oh, I like your shirt. I went to college there actually, and I didn't know if he was Uzbek or if he was American. He was like, Oh, I went to college there too. I'm like, What? Yeah. A Dartmouth ’74. Or 76, I think. He was a Russian major who is here working. He's like a professor, I think at one of the defense universities and I was just like, What are the chances and, you know, I feel like we need to break into like ‘Round the Girdled Earth. Can you meet someone in Tashkent Uzbekistan in the grocery store? Like I just, Yeah, it was that, that was, that was my number one Dartmouth moment . [LJR: Small world.] I was not expecting that at all.
LJR: All right, so speaking of not expecting things, when you do think back to the younger college-aged Heather, and if you were to be able to fly there now and say, Hey, look at what your life has become and where you've been, what would she say like, Oh, of course, that makes total sense. Or would she be a little bit flabbergasted?
HM: So I, as myself, go back and speak to myself?
LJR: Or I could, or I could whisper to her. Somebody goes back and tells her,
HM: Yeah, I mean, I think she would be excited that I. Still, you know, speaking Russian still, you know, my kids are eating food, Russian foods that I love that it, it just, the cultural aspects of it that became so important to me at that time. I think she would like that and that I was still using it. And getting to kind of still experience that life and share it with their kids. Like, yeah, that's really.
LJR: Very cool. Yes. Well, Heather, thank you so much for sharing this ‘Round the Girdled Earth story, and, and being on with us. I'm, we're excited to see where this journey will take you next and next, and next it seems. But we're, we're glad to have you among us, and thanks so much for sharing.
HM: Yeah, thank you for having me. It was fun to be able to connect all the way from Tashkent.
LJR: That was Heather McNemar, a former Peace Corps volunteer who has gone round this girdled earth a number of times with her family as her husband has been posted with the U.S. State Department. Her fluency in Russian and her expertise in helping others find their footing in new places and new careers has been helpful in many of her posts. She is currently in the middle of a stint in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, and continues running, finding that it is often a great way to get to know a new place.
We're happy that you've been able to get to know such a diverse range of people through this show. Because of all the varied voices we highlight, we think this show has a little something for everyone. Won't you please let everyone in your life know about it? Just point them to RoadsTakenShow.com or tell them they can tune in to us wherever they get their podcasts. No subscriptions necessary. Though do feel free to follow us so you don't miss any guest that joins me, Leslie Jennings Rowley, on Roads Taken.