In his younger days, when many of his contemporaries didn't really know what they wanted, David Reynolds was pretty clear on where he'd end up. Things came to pass just as he had imagined in both professional and recreational pursuits. Only now, with some years behind him, is he wondering what the next step might be. Find out how sticking with things for a while can both help you get better and leave you guessing about alternatives.
In his younger days, when many of his contemporaries didn't really know what they wanted, David Reynolds was pretty clear on where he’d end up. And things ultimately came to pass just as he had imagined in both professional and recreational pursuits. He parlayed his engineering degrees into roles in technology and manufacturing and honed his leadership skills in business school. Spending twenty years in the same company afforded him the opportunity to flex those skills and build a broad toolkit. But now, with some years behind him, he is wondering about the opportunity costs of staying in one spot.
In this episode, find out from David how sticking with things for a while can both help you get better and leave you guessing about alternatives …on today's Roads Taken with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode’s Guest
David Reynolds has a wide variety of experiences and a deep skill set in technology manufacturing management. He has spent more than two decades with Cabot Corporation in the greater Boston area, where he lives with his family. He is still into competitive sailing and on and off the water wants to keep getting better at things while always looking to what's on the horizon.
For another story about balancing stability and change, listen to our episode with Keshav Puttaswamy.
Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com
Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings Rowley
Music: Brian Burrows
Email the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com
David Reynolds: There aren't many more years in most of our lives to do something meaningful, and I'm pretty certain I want to have at least one or two more meaningful career type experiences. That realization is kind of exciting, but I have no idea when I will make that decision, how I will make it, and what the next thing will be.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: In his younger days when many of his contemporaries didn't really know what they wanted, David Reynolds was pretty clear on where he'd end up. Things came to pass just as he had imagined in both professional and recreational pursuits. Only now, with some years behind him, is he wondering what the next step might be. Find out how sticking with things for a while can both help you get better and leave you guessing about alternatives on today's Roads Taken with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
Today I'm here with David Reynolds and we are going to talk about getting on the road, getting off the road, staying put sometimes, and kind of what a whole journey looks like from all those vantage points. So David, thanks so much for being here.
DR: I'm thrilled.
LJR: Yay. Alright, so every time I have a conversation with one of our classmates in this milieu, I ask two questions and they are these: When we were in college, who were you? And when we were getting ready to leave, who did you think you would become?
DR: When we were there, I'm not really sure. I think I can say with certainty who I was getting ready to become and wanted to be when I left. In fact, that's one of the things that struck me about a lot of the podcasts is how many people say they were still discovering themselves and then had these fantastic journeys. I'm thinking about Rob Hamilton's story that had many years of discovery in it. And, you know, he might not have used the word, but I think he said he sort of felt like a misfit and was figuring things out and then eventually, like, you know, totally found his place and is doing this awesome stuff.
I was, I think the opposite. Like I knew sort of exactly what I wanted to do when I left Dartmouth. And for the most part actually I've been able to do those things. I actually find that now in my life, I'm getting, I get ahead of myself a bit. Like there's far more uncertainty. I'm less certain about all that stuff.
But then I was pretty certain I wanted to work in a like technology company, a manufacturing company. I wanted to be a leader. I wanted to work with other people. I wanted to work in a for-profit enterprise. I wanted to, you know, get married, start a family. I wanted to do things competitively for myself, like continue sailing and stuff like that, and all that stuff I've been able to do, and I guess that's kind of who I was in school, too.
I mean, I was pretty, I guess you could say intense. My friends thought I was excitable, which I was, and I still am. I took school seriously. I'd like to think my grades reflect that. I took my, you know, my athletics seriously. And I was part of the Dartmouth social scene, although certainly not, like it wasn't central to my life. So I was pretty engaged with Dartmouth and I felt that I belonged and I'm actually really grateful to be able to say that 'cause I've heard now so many stories of people that say, you know, I'm not sure I belonged, or I felt like an outsider and I can understand now how many people felt that way. I'm very grateful to feel like I felt part of Dartmouth then and I feel part of our class community now and I'm, I guess I thank all of us for that.
LJR: Yeah, that's great.
DR: Yeah, exactly.
LJR: So let me dig down a little bit, because you said that you kind of knew all these things that you wanted, and I've talked to a lot of people now and some of those of us who didn't have that were just because we didn't really know all the options out there. And I just wonder like, how did you know for-profit, tech, manufacturing, all of those things? Were those, did you have models of those things or was it dabbling a little bit in internships or whatnot before? How'd you get there?
DR: That's a good question. I knew that I was technically interested 'cause I'd always been a little bit of a, you know, an engineer mindset when I was younger. I grew up in a family where both my parents were, became entrepreneurs. My father had been a geologist, which is basically an entrepreneur in his early career, like looking for stuff. And then became an entrepreneur, started his own company. My mother worked for him, for, they worked together basically, not for, they worked together for, I don't know, at least 20 years, you know, building and starting, building and running their own business that was successful for them. So there definitely was, I guess, a role model there, or two role models at least. So that's part of the, one of the reasons and a little bit of like, maybe I didn't know all the options. You know, I look around now and I say, boy, there was…think about how much fascinating stuff there is that one could have done. There's some of that, but I think I was pretty lucky. Like, I don't know, I haven't seen another path that I say boy, like that's where I should have landed. I would've been a much better fit there. Lots of other places I might've liked to. [LJR: Yeah.] But I don't like, I think maybe I got a little bit lucky too.
LJR: Yeah. That's great. So where did the first round of luck put you?
DR: Right after we were leaving, I got to room with one of my best Dartmouth friends, Ted Sorum, at Stanford for a year. But that was fun and educational.
LJR: So you went directly into a master's program?
DR: Yes.
LJR: Oh.
DR: Let's just, it was a, about the easiest way you could get a master's degree, let's just say simple nine months, and I was done.
LJR: Okay. Oh wow. Okay. Engineering?
DR: Engineering, engineering. And I got a job as an engineer afterwards in a startup and I enjoyed that. But it had its limitations. It was not one of the startups that became an overnight 1990s success. Left there to become a management consultant for a short period of time and went back to business school and then landed in my career after that.
LJR: Okay.
DR: You know, pretty, pretty straightforward route actually.
LJR: Yeah, well, well straightforward, but also at this time of, you know, what was tech, what was entrepreneurship, what was a startup? Could have been any number of things. And so in having that background to get to business school, sometimes that meant, oh, I'm gonna change my life completely. Sometimes it's focusing. So how did the business school experience work for you in terms of like, leading you to the things that you were gonna do after?
DR: You know, many of my classmates, I'm sure, like many other people who went to grad school, went in looking for a change to figure what they wanted to do. Again, I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to come out and be, you know, be, have some route to becoming a leader in technology and manufacturing companies. And it gave me that. I mean, it was, I don't think..it would be disingenuous to sell business school as some massive life experience. It's professional education. It's not that. But it was, you know, it was good for me. It worked and it eventually got me to something that, you know, has been rewarding. So, you know, I look back and it actually seems pretty simple. Like I was lucky that I had some role models for things that would fit for me and that I knew what I wanted to do and that the path I was on of being able to go to Dartmouth and get a job and, you know, go to business school, which a lot of people don't have all those privileges like allowed me to sort of have the path I not only know what it was, but have the path that, A path that worked for me.
LJR: Yeah. And that path, although it had little markers within it, has been one real big long shot, right? At the same place.
DR: Like I've been at the same company. I started 20 years ago, almost to the day, working at Cabot Corporation, which is a chemicals company based in Boston. And I can say with confidence that, look, it's been a really great experience. I wouldn't. I wouldn't change it, but I, that's actually surprising.
LJR: And you were a,
DR: …to say…
LJR: ..That's surprising…
DR: …to me.
LJR: To, certainly to the 20-year-old you.
DR: Yes.
LJR: Is it surprising now at the almost 50 year old you?
DR: No, I've come to, I've come to understand it. Actually, at the time it was very surprising—the idea that I was gonna work in a company of, you know, a couple thousand people, which I know is not a lot, but to me it sounded like a lot. Then I thought, you know, well, I want to go do something more entrepreneurial. I won't last here very long. I've lasted 20 years. It's been great. Like I don't regret the last 20 years at all. From a career perspective. None. None.
LJR: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and because you got to do different things and move into those leadership roles that you'd always really wanted to do, too. So you were getting the best of the kind of entrepreneurial a little bit and leadership, I would imagine.
DR: Yes. And I can appreciate now both the pros and cons of different sort of for-profit career paths, even, you know, entrepreneurial career paths. And mine's had a lot of pros. It's had some downsides of course. But I wouldn't change it. I've been, you know, been happy. Well, of course, the realization that you've worked somewhere for 20 years is a little bit, you know. It like, I don't know, kind of fits in the definition of midlife crisis, but not in a bad way. Midlife.
LJR: Right. It just makes us realize it's our age.
DR: Midlife awakening or understanding, I guess.
LJR: Exactly. Well, you, you touched on that a little bit earlier and I wanna go back there. So you said back in the day you knew who you were, kind of what you wanted, all of that and felt that belonging sense, and now you feel far more uncertainty. What is that about? In what realms and kind of where does…is that a positive? Is that a, what does it feel like to you?
DR: I think it's a positive. It probably kind of starts it with Reunion because you have this great opportunity there to start like finding out what other people's doing and meeting people that you like never knew in college and hearing their stories and realizing how different everybody else's stories are and interesting, right? I mean, I listen to some of the podcasts and you're like, wow, like all this cool stuff. And I think it's…I would use the word like opportunity cost. The opportunity cost I think now is higher because there aren't many more years in most of our lives to do something meaningful. And I'm pretty certain I want to have at least one or two more meaningful career type experiences, you know, before I either don't want to do it anymore or I'm, you know, physically and mentally not able. That point will come. So for me, that realization is kind of exciting, but I have no idea how or when, like when I will make that decision, how I will make it and what the next thing will be. I have some ideas what I'd like it to be. But I think one of the reasons I wanted to do this podcast, although I think I never really actually asked you, you had to, you had to chase me a little—thank you for that—was that it would force me to think about these things and then maybe might surface…help me surface or surface people who would help me answer this question over the, you know, coming years. And I think some of that, interestingly that we've heard of from some of our classmates, that they have had these second acts or third acts or different pivots to different kinds of meaningful work have often come out of necessity. And for better or worse, at the moment you don't have necessity. You have a really good gig going, and so sometimes that blessing and curse all come packaged in this one thing.
DR: I think you're right. I think you're absolutely right. I had a friend who, you know, left my company, under difficult circumstances, he was asked to leave and, and he said the same thing. He said, you know, this is a real blessing. I would've been too chicken to take the leap on my own. And I actually don't know if I will be too chicken to take the leap on my own. I think that's a con…like that's a worry I legitimately have. But I'm at least at the point where I can acknowledge it's something I have to grapple with.
LJR: Right, right. Okay. So to put the net out there and to say to others like, okay, maybe somebody call in and help, David: what are the things in your non-work a day life that kind of are also out there and have been bringing you joy over the last couple decades?
DR: Yeah, well my, my family for sure, you know, I married 98 Lisa Core. Many of our classmates know her or still friends with her. We have two boys. I mean, they've brought, you know, a ton of joy. You know, my story is probably pretty similar to others. It's been a fun journey, so there's a ton of joy there. My family in general, definitely spend a lot of time with family. That's, you know, supportive and, and happy.
I have continued, you know, I was on the sailing team at school more than anybody I know, I think, or most people I know. I've kept up that as my primary recreation. And a lot of people change their recreational pursuits. You know, after college they do something different and I have lots of friends who don't do what they were doing then, or they do something different. That's something I've stayed completely committed to. It's actually like the one thing that's for me in my life. I spend a lot of time sailing with a Dartmouth 98 at Jeff Shoreman. Who's become a lifelong friend, you know, from college, and now we sort of share this thing that's for ourselves together. And I'm still very much motivated to be a better sailor. And my sailing friends will probably laugh at this. They're like, well, you know, you are, you were okay in college. Like, why, why is this something that you're still, like, why do you still, why would you still be chasing this? Who's still chasing, like, you know, whatever athletic dreams at the age of whatever age we are? To me it's, I don't know, it's still motivating. So that brings me a lot of joy. And then I do spend time with Dartmouth classmates and that brings me joy, too.
LJR: Awesome. So with the sailing though, let me ask, when I hear sailing, I'm like, oh, he's in the Boston area. He's out in the harbor, and it's lovely and it's a, you know, nice day sail. I don't think that's what you have in mind.
DR: Sometimes it is.
LJR: You're calling it athletic.
DR: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, of course, all of my friends who know me well, will just laugh at that. If you put it in the podcast. I'm not even gonna bother debating it. But let's say competitive, we use the word competitive.
LJR: Right. Competitive.
DR: I mean, for me it's competitive. Sometimes it is being out on the water when the weather's nice and you know, my wife and family are jealous. But I'm just as happy sailing in the winter competitively, or doing it, you know, in the pouring rain and the driving wind in the summer. I mean, it's, for me, it can be sort of relaxing. Nice weather, recreational: I love that, too. But the part that's for me is the competitive part and the self-improvement. Yeah.
LJR: Technical aspect. Yeah. Okay, cool. I love that. So putting all those things together, actually, I'm not sure how you have time to get out on the water and also do have a family and a big job. But what I'm seeing are these intersections of you found a thing you really loved and you continue doing it. And you continue doing it for the love of it, but also for the getting better. And I feel like that's the same thing for your work life. You found a place where you fit and you belonged and you were gonna be able to grow and you grew and you stuck with it and you're getting better. And so I'm gonna challenge you, as you're thinking about that, like next meaningful thing that yes, the opportunity cost of sticking with the things that you're doing might leave things that you don't know yet out in the cold. But you have this innate sense of holding onto things and there's nothing wrong with that. So it could be interesting, like, how do you just pivot the things that you're already doing into different and new ways? I don't know. DR: You're already helping, you know, answer the questions, Leslie. So thank you for that. But you've kind of nailed me. In fact, I hope that I can remember these words, this innate sense of holding onto things. That's a little bit me, for better and for worse. I don't think I'll ever give up sailing and sailing competitively as long as I can still do it. With respect to the career, I think that you're right, you have to challenge, like whether, if you found something that's really working for you and you're making a difference, why would you change it? The counter argument to that, and it's one I use with my wife sometimes—'cause I've been encouraging her into some career changes—is I feel like I've learned a lot doing what I've done and I've done it in an environment where I'm surrounded by a fantastic organization, like that's true of my company. We're a fantastic organization and really great people and the opportunity to connect and learn around the world, and I'm very, very grateful for that. And I can still like, make an impact in that environment. I think that my colleagues would say that that's true.
LJR: Yeah.
DR: I could do it for many more years. I also think it's possible I could make a bigger impact taking what I've learned and the privilege I've had, you know, from my education and my upbringing and my work life elsewhere in the world. And I think that's the one thing that nags at me the most, more so than I want to do something different. Because you're right, I'm not the person who, you know, who absolutely needs novelty and diversity all the time. But I do have a sense that I've had this great fortune to build some, you know, capability and that maybe, maybe I should use it elsewhere. You know, the company I work for today will be fine without me. That's also true. Even though it's a great place for me. And of course there'll be a place for me there. I hope for a long time. Maybe, maybe I could do more elsewhere.
LJR: Yeah. And I think that's true in that when I said the sense of holding onto things, maybe it doesn't have to be the thing in the place. You're gonna take all of those experiences, hold onto those, use them in a slightly different way. That makes a lot of sense. And I can see kind of all the competitive nature and the bettering yourself through sailing and bettering your sailing skills…Maybe you just find a little way to do that differently. Maybe keep doing it the way you're doing it, but also, I don't know, you're teaching other people to do it, or you're teaching management through the wisdom that you gained through sailing. Who knows? There are lots of, lots of opportunities to meld what you have. But also, I think it's really healthy that you're thinking maybe there's just something brand new out there and I can be open to that too [DR: Maybe] which is really exciting.
DR: Maybe we'll see. We'll see if there is and if I could be open to it. I think those are both unknowns, but I also think there's a little bit of how much do I want to keep driving still? I mean, I think most of us are, or have asked that question. And I have many, you know, recently I've had many experiences of having friends who are stepping back or, you know, maybe they've been really fortunate. Their careers has gone really well for them, both rewarding and, and financially rewarding. And they're able to step back and they've decided to do that. And I don't even know yet, like, is that what I do? I want to step back and, and would stepping back be a good thing in general for me? That's another big question. And I don't, I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Like I. I don't think I am that person who could step back, but then if I don't like, when will that ever happen? You know? So that's a big uncertainty for me, too. And I'm sure it's for a lot of people.
LJR: Yeah. I think you're right. And yet I've talked to so many people on this podcast where, you know, all the uncertainties are always there and there's no way of knowing. It's called uncertainty for a reason. There's no answer until you do it, right? And so we have, many of us have thought from the beginning, oh my gosh, that first decision after graduation is gonna set up the dominoes of my life. And it's so important. And then we realize, oh, you know, I could have just chosen a different set of dominoes. Or I am getting somewhere down here and could do these other things. And I think we forget that we can try out things and we can try out things without completely blowing up what we know and love. Like what about a sabbatical? What about a long vacation? And I've just set my mindset differently and I'm pretending that I've, you know, stepped back or quit my job or done whatever. Like there are ways that we can kind of trick the system into thinking we're giving things a try without having to completely commit, right. But I think it's gonna be…
DR: Are you hypothesizing or are you gonna have specific examples you're gonna share with me afterwards?
LJR: I can share with you, but I do think that the trick with you, though, is you have such a commitment center to you, right? So to think, oh, if I don't do this, it means I've stopped doing it, rather than if I don't do this, it means I'm just giving that a break for a second so I can try this thing.. And maybe. I can come back to that if this trial didn't work or didn't feel as good, or wasn't the right one yet. So I think there's a bit of a quandary that you have being such a commitment, you're committed to being committed. I don't know. I'm not, I'm not a clinical psychologist.
DR: Okay. I'm gonna file that one away.
LJR: So, yeah, exactly.
DR: You're doing a pretty good job.
LJR: Okay. So David, if we did find that 20-year-old version of yourself and gave him a glimpse into where you would have been 25 years later. And maybe even shared with him, you're, well, I've done these things, I've kept doing these things, and now I don't really know what to do. What do you think his advice to you would be?
DR: I don't know. I think probably at that age it would've been like, well, why didn't you have more? Why don't you adventure more? But actually it's like, but it's been an adventure.
LJR: Yeah.
DR: You know, in its own way. So I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sure, maybe it would've been, well, you know, look, take more chances. It would probably be, huh. Well you did, this is what, like I said, I wanted to do. Maybe, is that all there is? That's probably like, oh, like that's where it leaves you?
LJR: But you're,
DR: That would probably be the reaction.
LJR: I don't know. Maybe, but I think the retort then could be Yeah. And it's pretty great.
DR: Yeah, probably. Probably. And I think I'm right. I've, I'm self-aware enough now that, that I, we could have that one out and I current me wouldn't lose.
LJR: Yeah, that's right. Well, current you has forged this path in such a way that I think future you probably can't lose either. And I'm just really glad that you've shared all of this with us today. So we wish you the best, whether you stay put, do something new or do some little hybrid. So again, thanks so much for being here.
DR: Yeah, thanks for your commitment to this. Leslie, I've enjoyed telling my story to you and I've enjoyed listening to other people's stories.
LJR: That was David Reynolds, who has a wide variety of experiences and a deep skillset in technology manufacturing management. He’s spent more than two decades with Cabot Corporation in the greater Boston area where he lives with his family. He's still into competitive sailing and, on and off the water, wants to keep getting better at things while always looking to what's on the horizon.
Like David, we happen to have found something that suits us and we're sticking at it trying to get better and better. To that end, we'd love to hear from you about what is working for you, what you'd like to hear more or less, and any constructive notes you have to share. Just go to RoadsTakenshow.com, and click on the contact us link and drop us a line. If you can't think of anything to make it better, go ahead and follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss any future episodes with my guests and me, Leslie Jennings Rowley on Roads Taken.