Happily thinking of herself as a STEM person, Patricia Herrera was on the premed path before a chance encounter with Latinx theater in a freshman seminar led her to take to the stage. There, she began thinking about how theater was able to reflect who she was. But it took some time for her to figure out how one could actually put that into practice as a profession. Find out how centering your community’s stories in your work can help you give voice to your own.
Guest Patricia Herrera was on the premed path, happily thinking of herself as a STEM person. A chance encounter with Latinx theater in a freshman seminar led her to take to the stage and realized she loved it. She infused her science studies with healthy doses of theater opportunities but always thought of those pursuits as a hobby. After a term-long immersion experience with peers who were thinking about the stage as a profession, she received advice from a counselor: You don’t have to do what others expect but rather what makes you happy. She changed majors to theater and what would now be termed Latinx studies, and had to “come out” to her parents with a new identity as an artist.
As she gained experience in acting, directing, writing, and the academic side of things, she couldn’t decide which part of the theatrical enterprise most intrigued her. So she applied to graduate programs in all areas and found ways to keep active in the performing world while also analyzing that world in her academic studies. Ultimately, she found a landing spot where she could continue to do both.
In this episode, find out from Patricia how centering your community’s stories in your work can help you give voice to your own…on Roads Taken with Leslie Jennings Rowley.
About This Episode’s Guest
Patricia Herrera is a community-engaged artist whose mission is to create a more just world through theater and the arts. She is currently Associate Professor in the Department of Theatre and Dance at the University of Richmond, which has been her academic home for over a decade. Her teaching, research, and community-based projects explore the social inequities experienced by underrepresented communities, especially in the places that she calls home. Find out more about her work at drpatriciaherrera.com.
Find more episodes at https://roadstakenshow.com
Executive Producer/Host: Leslie Jennings Rowley
Music: Brian Burrows
Email the show at RoadsTakenShow@gmail.com
Patricia Herrera: That opportunity to apprentice and observe really was foundational. Part of me was like, How do people do this? How did they create the spaces? And what was empowering for me was they were creating their own stories. So that's one of the things that they learned is like, well, if you wanna see your story on stage, you need to create those possibilities for yourself.
Leslie Jennings Rowley: Happily thinking of herself as a STEM person, Patricia Herrera was on the premed path before a chance encounter with Latinx theater in a freshman seminar led her to take to the stage. There, she began thinking about how theater was able to reflect who she was. But it took some time for her to figure out how one could actually put that into practice as a profession. Find out how centering your community’s stories in your work can help give voice to your own…on today’s Roads Taken with me, Leslie Jennings Rowley.
Today I'm here with Patricia Herrera and we are going to talk about the roles that we take on and shed and try again. And where those roles ultimately lead us. So Patricia, so lovely to have you with us.
PH: Thank you so much for having me. It's so great to see ya.
LJR: All right, so we actually start this with the same two questions for everyone, and they are these: when we were in college, who were you and when we were getting ready to leave, who did you think you would become?
PH: That's a great question, and I laugh because my life of events have really so different. I came in thinking, I was gonna major in biochem. I came in as a science student. I went to Brooklyn Technical High School and was part of a STEM program there. And so I was trained to do science. So in my mind, that's the pathway that I had, and that's the pathway that I knew. That's not the path I took.
LJR: No. That is a surprise to me, actually. I didn't know you until later, and that is not…okay. So there were some twists there.
PH: There were a lot of twists.
LJR: So when did you start either shedding or adding parts of you to become who you are?
PH: So actually my first year at Dartmouth I was taking our first year seminar class and there was a writing consultant working with us and he wrote a play and won an award to be able to stage it. And he invited me to audition. And I looked at him and I said, I've never performed. I have no idea what that means. I don't know what to do. And he's like, Just give it a try, you know? And I said, Okay, I'll give it a try. And I did, and I got cast and that was the beginning of just falling in love with being on stage and the art of theater. I got the theater bug after that and just was part of different performances while I was trying to do my lab.
LJR: Right.
PH: So in my mind, I was just doing this cuz I enjoyed it and didn't think of it as something that I can do as a career or as a profession. And it didn't dawn onto me until probably sophomore year when I went to study abroad for the London theater study abroad program.
LJR: But at this point, you were still a biochem major.
PH: I was still a biochem major. I hadn't declared being a theater person. I was taking theater classes. I was also taking Spanish classes that were really connected to Latino studies at the time, which is what I was interested in as well. But in my mind, I was still doing science. I wasn't particularly doing well in the classes. I must say. But I was still like hustling along, taking all the classes that I needed to take to be a biochem major.
LJR: But at some point, back in the back of your mind, you might have thought that maybe that wasn't gonna be your path, because taking on theFSP, the Foreign Study Program in theater is an a commitment of an entire term, and there are no biochem classes as far as I can remember in the foreign study program in London for theater.
PH: That is correct. Well, after I came back, my counselor sat me down and said, Well, let's stand and look at the classes that you've taken and let's see what makes sense for you.
I had such a great time in London and really met so many other people that were taking this on as a profession that in my mind I started thinking, I wonder if, what could I do? And one of the reality checks that she gave me was, Well, you wanna do what you love, not what you think others want you to do.
And I think that was a big shift for me. You know, as coming from an immigrant family, my parents came from Ecuador and so education was the way out the way of success. And so, you know, they said, you're gonna be a doctor. And so that's what I knew. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna be a doctor. And so I, I was part of these science programs and so that was the reality I knew. And so nothing, I didn't see any other possibility. And then the idea of like doing something you love was also not real, not a viable possibility either because it's like, it's, is that gonna get you money? [LJR: Right.] Like, like how are you gonna get a salary or, or anything like that. And my, that's the way, and that was the practical way my parents talked about a profession, was you wanna get your benefits, you want to, right? You wanna have a good, stable, a salary, and. You're the first one going to college, so.
LJR: Yeah. So at that point though, you're hearing these kind of conflicting messages and it's really hard as a 20-year-old, 21-year-old maybe to figure out how, is there a way to do both, which should win? Who am I letting down? All of those things. How were you thinking about that as you changed majors because you were a theater and Latino studies major. What were those conversations alike like internally for you and maybe externally with family and others?
PH: Oh, that was a terrible part of the terrible stage I felt really I had let, I felt like I had let my parents down, but I had to share with them and announce to them like, I'm majoring in theater and Latino studies, and they were flabbergasted, of course. They could not understand why would I possibly do that and how I’d possibly live, and all the things that you would think of parents would say. And so it was hard for me. One, it was hard for me to tell them I took a WA a long time to tell them. And two, it was hard for them to accept that. That actually made me more stronger because I was more adamant about saying, this is what I want to do. So it was, it was, it was good for them to respond it that way cuz then I had to be clear about why I wanted to do it. But in reality, I wasn't. Right cuz it was the first time I came out as saying, Okay, I wanna do this, right? And it was my junior year, so I hadn't built up all the skills and experiences for me to, to say, Okay, I'm going to do this. And so I went through the major really quickly, but and decided I wanted to go to graduate school. I did not know what direction I wanted to go, so I applied to all the possible directions for graduate school. I had written a play by that time, so I was like, I'm gonna try a play writing program. I had directed a play because I was part of Nuestras Voces, which was the Latinx theater. Student group there, and I had done work with the group there as well. So I was like, I'm gonna apply to directing, I'm gonna apply to an MA program just in theater history, a PhD program. So I applied to any possible option, so I could have some options because I did not know what I wanted to do and how I wanted to do it.
LJR: But maybe a practicing playwright or writer or director didn't appeal because that didn't seem viable, or?
PH: Well, I didn't know enough to say no to any one of those, so I didn't want to close the doors for those options.
LJR: But you thought you needed this more training?
PH: I thought I needed more training. So I said I'm gonna apply not knowing what that meant.
And interestingly, I did get into, a dramaturg program. I got into a directing program. I didn't get into a playwriting program. And then I got into the CUNY Graduate Center, PhD Theater Program. And because I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York, coming back to New York, really seemed something that I wanted to do. I also was going out with somebody who lived in New York too, . So I think that also helped with that decision. But that was an opportunity for one to go back home. But to re-look at New York City in a different way. Cuz I hadn't really taken advantage of the theater scene, the arts scene in New York City. And so it was falling in love with the city that I grew up with and getting to know it in a different way. And so that was what was really exciting for me.
I actually deferred for a year before starting the PhD program. There was a fellowship program that Dartmouth had that allowed you to do some kind of internship or apprenticeship your senior year when you were going out. And so I had applied for that and had proposed that I would apprentice with three Latinx playwrights: Carmen Rivera, Dolores Prida and Migdalia Cruz. So that's how I really got to know the world really is getting to be with the artist and just sit side by side with them and get to know the work that they're doing and how they do it. And all these three artists, they were, they are community-based artists. They're really interested in doing work that aims at a specific social issue. And at that time, Carmen Rivera was working on one acts, HIV plays in the community. Migdalia Cruz was working on a play that was, like most of her plays, based on the Bronx and the, the kind of poverty and hustle and, and struggles that BIPOC people were facing during the 1980s and 1990s. So these…and Dolores Prida who, who has passed away since, was talking about her identity as a Cuban American in these plays. And so these were plays that really spoke to me and that's why I also fell in love with theater was because I was able to see myself there. And it was professors like Diana Taylor and Silvia Spitta, who's really exposed me to the work of Latinx artists in general, and they're the ones who actually familiarized me with the Nuyorican Poets Café, which is what I wrote my dissertation on, and which my book is about as well. And so it's interesting that to think about that journey that I learned about something from New York. And I'm a New Yorker, but I learned it at Dartmouth,
LJR: Right. In Hanover, New Hampshire.
PH: So I think that that's where my inspiration comes from is from really that close intimate time that I spent learning about these Latinx playwrights. At the same time that year that I deferred, of course, you know, it's a fellowship, so it's not enough to live in New York City . So I ended up working with Henry Street Settlement. At that time they had Urban Youth Theater Company. And I became the coordinator of the youth theater company and I was there for at least five years with them. So it was really fun times I got to meet José Joaquín García, Alicia Diaz, and these were, and Jennifer Fleming and Amarelys Pérez, which we, three of us, we joined together to create our own theater group, Intergenerational theater group in New York City called Rubi Theater Company. So it was beautiful , but that path was not something that I had thought about or even imagined, but it really just came out of the work of being with young people and thinking, Wow, what would it look like if we created a space like that that is specific to Latinx population?
PH: Yes. And as I had asked the question before, could, could you have thought. Before leaving Dartmouth about becoming a practicing artist and well, no, I'm gonna go get more training so that I can keep all of my options open. It was actually that period of not yet doing the training, but then continuing with the training that was flexible enough to let you do both. Right? You could be a practicing artist, be in that world, yet kind of get your grounding and foundational skills that you could critique and teach and do all of the other things that are part of making this a viable career in at that time, New York, of course, and later on, right?
PH: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that opportunity to just apprentice and observe really was foundational for me and just affirmed that that was a direction to do it. And also that there were actual possibilities, right? Cuz part of me was like, how do people do this? You know, what, how did they create the spaces? And what was empowering for me was. They were creating their own stories, right? So that's one of the things that they learned is like, well, if you wanna see your story on stage, you need to create those possibilities for yourself and there are other people who can do that with you. Right? And so the idea of a collective was something that really I enjoy until this day. A lot of my work is really collaborative and I see the power of collaboration and how much that is such a force for thinking about social justice.
LJR: Yeah, so collaboration is important in lots of fields. Academia sometimes, sometimes it's a very solitary pursuit. Talk us through kind of that, the PhD, where it took you, and how that has played out for you, whether the solitary player or the collaborator.
PH: Yes. That's a great question. So in indeed, I think, you know, being in the PhD program and writing a dissertation is very solitary. And I did feel while I was doing my PhD that it was two worlds that I was living. I was living the world of finishing the PhD and doing the academic thing and on the other side, I was doing my community work, which I was passionate about, which was connected to who I was and to the community that I really wanted to connect with. And I had to find a way to bridge that. And it took me a little while to do that cuz I felt, you know, at that time there still wasn't any Latinx PhD courses, graduate courses, right? And so it was, I was creating that for myself and it was being in the theater world in the actual kind of practice of theater that really encouraged me to say, Okay, if artists are doing, right, if artists are creating their stories, then I can do the same thing in this space, in this academic space. How can I create a space where I'm bringing these stories into the academic space? And so that's what I did. I had my dissertation really focused on the Nuyorican Poets Café, on the women who really founded the Nuyorican Poets Café, and then how it's really influenced contemporary hip hop theater artists. And of course that wasn't an easy thing to do. do because there's an expectation of showing you're not only an expert here, but you know, then I have to show I'm an expert over here as well. So I always felt like I was, you know, trying to bring these two worlds together.
And so with that in mind, I think as I moved forward, and because my community work kept going, I was, we were part of the hip hop theater festival and so working together was key. Like that's what I knew and that's what made me feel like I had purpose, too. And so I guess when I think about what my work today, I can't, of course you, because I have to write alone, because you have to publish on your own, right? You do the things that you have to do in order to right, get tenure or stuff like that. But I think on the side, I continue to do the community work that I continue to, to love. So a lot of my work has been working, trying to get together and strategize with my colleagues about, well, how can we make a social issue more relevant? So, for instance I'm currently working with a group of people who are affected with HIV. And we are trying to create with our students a workshop that will help facilitate the sharing of stories with our community partners together. And so, but that came out of a long relationship that we've had five years now from creating docudramas and putting up exhibitions with these community partners. And for me it's like, what better way to learn than to be with the people with the lived experience that can share their history and their challenges? And at the same time, we're honoring them for their contributions, right, in many ways. So, you know, I get to live in both of these worlds, do the academic world, but then still be in community with the people that I admire very much. And so I still see myself as that bridge.
LJR: Yeah. And so when you were going back home to New York, you said you kind of got to know that community anew through a different lens. The life of an academic isn't always where they think they're gonna be. So you, you are now not in New York, you're still a New Yorker, I'm sure. But how has the transition out of New York played out in your life and what has that been like to create the new communities for yourself?
PH: I gotta go back to being a graduate student because I must say it took me nine years to finish my graduate studies and so that's a long time. A lot happened between that time. I had three babies and so I literally was starting my dissertation and I had my first child. There was a point where I realized, Oh, I really need to not be trying to adjunct work, raise a child and write a dissertation. It's like, I'm never going to finish. So I decided to apply for dissertation fellowships and lo and behold, Dartmouth does have Cesar Chavez dissertation fellowship, which I applied to, and it's an interesting journey and I did get to go. So I came back to Dartmouth as an adult with my two children and finished my dissertation there, and then stayed for another two years at Dartmouth as a post doc, which was such…it was great times. It was beautiful to come back as an adult and really appreciate everything that Dartmouth has. But I must say that it's an interesting journey with thinking about the Cesar Chavez Fellowship because the first Cesar Chavez fellow, Tiffany A. Lopez, who is still my mentor today, is the one who also opened my eyes to Latinx Theater. She was finishing her dissertation on Sheri Margas plays a chiana feminist theater activist. And that encouraged me to then direct the first Cherríe Moragaplay at Dartmouth, Shadow of a Man. And so it's interesting, for me it was very powerful and emotional to go on that journey.
LJR: That's amazing. And then that allowed you to. Finish and get the degree and then put yourself out on the market.
PH: That's exactly it. I had my third child at Dartmouth, so he's a Dartmouth boy. And I got my degree a month after giving birth, so I literally was carrying my third child with me and went on the stage and got my diploma and such. That was a big feat for me. [ljr; Yes.] I was definitely very, very tired.
And I did go into job market and because my son was just born, I actually went into the job market with my son. A lot of the campus interview, I took him along cuz I was nursing. And so that was also kind of a big challenge, you know? And it was also good to see how institutions respond to that cause then, you know, okay, this is a place I wanna be, this is a place I don’t want to be.
And University of Richmond was one of those places that opened their arms and invited me in, and I've been here since then. It was not a place that I had thought about whatsoever. It was not at all. I didn't know anything about Richmond. Absolutely. Anything. And that right actually became the impetus for me to learn more and is why I base a lot of my community based work about Richmond. So it's really civil rights in Richmond because I wanted to know more about it. And so a lot of my projects have to do with Richmond's history, whether it's busing, massive resistance, gentrification. Latinos in Richmond. It was a way for me to really learn about the place I was living in.
And so I kind of challenged myself even though I don't, was not a Richmonder, not an expert whatsoever. I said, I'm going take this journey and allow community partners to be the experts, allow them to lead me in the journey, and then kind of think about what can we co-create together as we take this journey on.
LJR: So, Patricia, your work, we understand kind of where it comes from and who it's helping to serve and shine light on. But as you said, you were still unclear about which part you wanted to be in, and it seems like you never had to choose. So you, you create and write. And you create and direct. Is there still a part of you that is performing as well?
PH: No.
LJR: No. That one you left at the door.
PH: However, I think that we all, when you're an academic, you're performing the classroom all the time.
LJR: This is true. This is true.
PH: I haven't, yeah, I haven't been on the stage for quite a bit of, like, quite a while. Now, so, and part of me, you know, I'm actually an introvert by heart, so part of me, I feel okay about that. There are times where, as part of my theater company work that I did, we did a lot of lyrical work and musical work in there as well. And so I have some songs that I'm a part of that I wrote some songs to Dan Zanes. We were part of Dan Zanes albums. So that was fun and it's always awesome to remember and I always tell my children, I was pregnant with you when I was in that album. And oftentimes when somebody introduces me, they say, I didn't know you were a performer. So, but I haven't officially gone back on that stage performing. That's part, part of my, one part of myself that, hey, maybe, maybe in another time I will, but maybe.
LJR: It sounds like you have lots of other roles that you, that you're a part of. So at what point vi there was it that your family kind of got on board? Was it just seeing you be able to feed yourself in New York and or see you happy? Or what was that like?
PH: I think till this day, my mom wonders what I do, so….
LJR: I think most mothers wonder what their children do.
PH: I think she's satisfied that, that I am a mother, you know, I can put food on the table. I'm happy I have a family. And so I think she let that go and stopped asking after a while and she, she really tries hard. They, they really try hard to understand what I do and admire what I do. You know, even though they don't fully understand, they have learned to appreciate what I do and they see it in my children. I think that’sthe beautiful thing about it is that they see the creativity that I'm passionate about. They see it in all of them. My son is, loves to rap and is thinking about film right now. My daughter is a visual artist. My other son loves animation. So it's interesting to see the directions they are taking and owning their own creativity, and I'm happy that they feel comfortable in that because that's probably the space that I didn't have, I didn't have that space to explore my sense of creativity.
LJR: Yeah, for sure. So if you think back to that very young Patricia thinking: I'm a STEM person, this is my path. And you told her, Actually, let me tell you about that path, and she saw where you are now, what would she say?
PH: There's a part of me that still has that science brain and still sees the work of my art as healing. You know, I think part of what you learned as being, as doctors, you learn how to heal people, you offer, you know, support towards that healing. And for me, theater the arts has been, that has been pathways for healings, has been an antidotes for social justice. I always say that the theater is sacred. Every time I do the work, the relationships that I build, the passion and energy that is put into creating this work is a dose that helps to cure, right? The challenges that we confront day to day. So in some ways, like while it's not the science, I do feel that the thread that ties those two worlds together is healing.
LJR: That is beautiful and goodness knows, we have a lot of healing to be done. So thank you for being out there and letting the voices of others show us what's reality and what maybe a future reality better than that one could be. So thank you so much, Patricia, for sharing all this story and for the work that you do.
PH: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time.
LJR: That was Patricia Herrera, a community-engaged artist whose mission is to create a more just world through theater and the arts. She is currently Associate Professor in the Department of Theatre and Dance at the University of Richmond, which has been her academic home for over a decade. Her teaching, research, and community-based projects explore the social inequities experienced by underrepresented communities, especially in the places that she calls home. Find out more about her work at drpatriciaherrera.com.
As Patricia says, when you throw yourself into a community's stories, you learn so much. I cannot tell you how grateful I have been to learn from all of the guests who have come on this show. Each one has so much to teach and so much wisdom in the reflections on decisions made and lessons learned. Thank you to them for sharing and for those who have yet to appear but will in the future, with me Leslie Jennings Rowley, on Roads Taken.